Todays Auction Find

tabs · 02-19-2007, 12:03 PM

Some of U Boyz talk about Barn Finds..well I got an auction find.

At a little outa the way gun auction I bought this beat up old Double Barrel Shotgun that no one would give a second glance at. Except for the fact that it has a cartouch on the stock which says "Bureau of Indian Affairs", has a Badge tacked to the stock which reads " US Indian Police 1889," Has Brass Tacks in the stock which Indians loved to do, and has "Pine Ridge Res" painted on the stock.

Thats Wounded Knee, The Ghost Dance and the Death of Sitting Bull in 1890 at the hands of the Indian Police. That gun was there, its a piece of American Western History all for $500.00.

The only thing I don't know is if in 1890 the Sioux Indian Police were one unit on the Reservation or were broken up into smaller sub-units reflecting the different sub-divisions of the Sioux Reservation. If it was smaller units the Shotgun wouldn't have been present at Sitting Bulls death as Sitting Bull was living at the Standing Rock Agency when he was killed.

Don't have pics yet.

Porsche · Porsche's Garage

Good buy!

What's the real value of the gun?

SolReaver · 02-19-2007, 12:51 PM

How can you put a price on history?
Research and document it the best you can.
There are probaly records of sale that the manufacturer might be able to provide.

tabs · 02-19-2007, 01:53 PM

As far as Historical events in Western American History..few will equal Wounded Knee or the death of Sitting Bull..ANYTHING connected with those events is a MAJOR find. There is HUGH MONEY in Historical Western memorbilia. Where this falls is VERY hard to say..it could be a few thousand or many thousand. This is a piece that says all over it I was there...Imagine finding a new 56 Speedster in a Barn..and buying it for $500.

pwd72s · 02-19-2007, 02:12 PM

See if you can get on "antiques road show" with it. Could turn out to be pretty thrilling....

ken_xman · 02-19-2007, 03:43 PM

Tabs- Are you in NY?? I know Chris Jossel - founder of Antiques roadshow and could provide an introduction.
I actually had Chris host an event in December for a small group of clients ... dinner/ drinks/ everyone could bring a item and have it appraised. It was pretty cool.

Jeff Higgins · 02-19-2007, 06:12 PM

What chokes does it have? Might be a handy little quail gun if it's improved/modified.

competentone · 02-19-2007, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
Some of U Boyz talk about Barn Finds..well I got an auction find.

At a little outa the way gun auction I bought this beat up old Double Barrel Shotgun that no one would give a second glance at. Except for the fact that it has a cartouch on the stock which says "Bureau of Indian Affairs", has a Badge tacked to the stock which reads " US Indian Police 1889," Has Brass Tacks in the stock which Indians loved to do, and has "Pine Ridge Res" painted on the stock.

Thats Wounded Knee, The Ghost Dance and the Death of Sitting Bull in 1890 at the hands of the Indian Police. That gun was there, its a piece of American Western History all for $500.00.

The only thing I don't know is if in 1890 the Sioux Indian Police were one unit on the Reservation or were broken up into smaller sub-units reflecting the different sub-divisions of the Sioux Reservation. If it was smaller units the Shotgun wouldn't have been present at Sitting Bulls death as Sitting Bull was living at the Standing Rock Agency when he was killed.

Don't have pics yet.

This may come as a shock to you

, but there are people out there who will take a worthless old firearm and attempt to put markings on it to make it look like it is something "collectible." There are "forgeries" in firearms.

I'm a little suspicious about the marking "Bureau of Indian Affairs" -- that name only came into use in 1947:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Indian_Affairs

I'd expect to do some research -- about the likely manufacturer of the gun itself and things like how it got to the auction where you bought it -- before concluding that you have something of "historical significance."

bell · bell's Garage

tabs....where are the pics? i want to see this thing

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by competentone
This may come as a shock to you , but there are people out there who will take a worthless old firearm and attempt to put markings on it to make it look like it is something "collectible." There are "forgeries" in firearms.

Oh absolutely. Big money in some of these. I'd advise the use of an escrow service so you can look this over first. I'd also like to know what auction site you were on...I'm kinda into old firearms as well.

pwd72s · 02-19-2007, 08:43 PM

NO! A discerning collecter like Tabby could never get taken!

tabs · 02-20-2007, 04:58 AM

If its a forgery its a forgery..what am I really out...$500, the risk is worth it.

turbo6bar · 02-20-2007, 05:01 AM

oh, no, dula. Don't tell me you're the one being pushed down the stairs. That's unfair.

bigchillcar · bigchillcar's Garage

boy, i'm a pessimist, too after hearing or reading about the 'forgery industries' that exist out there in collectibles. hard to stay on top of 'em..bastards.

Drago · Drago's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by turbo6bar
oh, no, dula. Don't tell me you're the one being pushed down the stairs. That's unfair.

Only a retard would buy a forgery.

Moses · 02-20-2007, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by competentone
I'm a little suspicious about the marking "Bureau of Indian Affairs" -- that name only came into use in 1947:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Indian_Affairs

From Wikipedia:

"Although the bureau, which was called the Office of Indian Affairs, was formed in 1824, similar agencies had existed in the U.S. government as far back as 1775, when a trio of Indian agencies were created by the Second Continental Congress."

I'm pretty sure the BIA existed in some form before 1824.

Drdogface · Drdogface's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by tabs
If its a forgery its a forgery..what am I really out...$500, the risk is worth it.

Tabs,
Nevermind all the crap you're getting from others on the board. There are lots of good fakes out there and IF you were duped you won't be the only one. I went to Gun Shows in San Fran all the time and saw ONE guy (a retired dentist !) sell crap to so many people. He was good. I think he did it mostly for the demented entertainment value. Have this piece looked at by a professional collector and if you find it's not what you thought stay on him til you get your money back. Sellers of antique firearms on auctions depend heavily on the feedback profile.

You also should get a copy of Flayderman's Guide and vet whatever you're thinking of buying in that text. I hope to he!! your find turns out to be genuine.

nota · 02-20-2007, 06:41 AM

make model and # ?
did that gun exist in 1889
was it a type the goverment bought
goverments love to keep track of their stuff

BTW I thought the army was the shooters at wounded knee
not indian cops

jriera · 02-20-2007, 06:46 AM

OK Tabs, I will buy it from you for $350 ...

Moses · 02-20-2007, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nota
BTW I thought the army was the shooters at wounded knee
not indian cops

Indian agents killed Sitting Bull to stop the ghost dance movement. Sitting Bull was a powerful leader at the time and it was thought that if he formally endorsed the ghost dance, it would lead to more orchestrated violence.