Me: Are we still going to the Johnsons tonight for drinks? When?

Her: Well I called Tina and she doesn't get out of work till 6

Me: K, so when are we going over there?

Her: Well she has to get the kids ready for the sitter and I guess her mother is coming over for a little while as well and...

Me: Are we getting to an answer here?

Her: On what?

Me: When/if we're going!

Her: I was trying to tell you that.

Me: Just say a time, I don't need to know or care how you and Tina arrived at that time, just say it.

Her: 7:30

Me: Thank you.

Mind you this is done in good humor, not in anger. I think women are so stunned that we ask them for something that they grab ahold of the opportunity to start a conversation...They should know better:D

I feel your pain....but...

In the first exchange you lost control. Instead of letting the conversation degenerate when it became apparent she did not tell him to call you about X, had you responded with "I see....do you think he would mind if I called him about X ownership?" none of the rest of the crap would have come up. I really think you should have let it go that she didn't ask him to call you.

In the second exchange, you made the mistake of not definitively stating you did mnot want to go on impulse...Your first statement was "Well, we could go tonight, but...." Had you started out with "I don't want to go tonight, I rather plan it so we don't have to rush...yadadadadad", I don't think the conversation would have taken the direction it did.

I think you're trying to be concilliatory and take her feelings into account a bit much. Not trying to defend her...I understand where you're coming from, but I kinda see her point if you've been extremely deferential in the past. Which I suspect you have.

Just say what you mean and be done with it. I bet she can deal with it better than you give her credit. Although the unjustified "You're saying I'm stupid..." is a bit melodramatic on her part.

I am so glad this is a universal problem LOL.
Let me ask you this.....how many times does the waiter have to come to the table before she will order. Usually I end up telling the waiter that it is her last meal.....:D

Excellent post Dueller...

And yes I have saved the waiter the walk over to the table several times by waving him off when he/she looked our way... and this at a restaurant she had been to many many times before... and of course there is the obligatory interview with the waiter "what do you like, what looks good tonight?". Typically I would guess it takes half an hour from when we sit down to ordering.

It used to bother me but now I just blow it off and figure it's extra time to make small talk with the GF.

I have a certain family member that is guilty of this. As soon as she declares a selection that sounds halfway resolute, one of the male family members will discreetly but swiftly confiscate her menu. It is all in good fun but is also very effective.

Forgive me guys but I'm really considering having my wife read this post to help her understand what we go thru over a very basic question.

Where would you like to eat tonight?
I'm afraid I would get the puppy dog eyes and the "your such a dope for telling them"
I really think it would be different if we didn't know each other. I know what she likes she knows what I like but just NOT on the same dayum days.

Have you ever heard two women talking on a speaker phone? I swear they are not having a conversation but they somehow manage to get their message across.

I think men just have to understand that women talk in a "stream-of-conscious" manner. They process things verbally where men like to "think" about it and give a final answer. This is the way it is with my wife and I.

Me: Lets go out for dinner.
Her: Ok, where do you want to go?

Me: I don't care. Is there someplace you have been wanting to go?
Her: Well I just had A, and I am not feeling like B..... oh, C sounds good don't you think?

Me: I really don't care. You can pick.
Her: Well we have not ever eaten at D, E is too far, F made me sick......

Me: Do you know what you want yet?
Her: Why don't you ever decide where we eat? I have to make all the decisions.

Me: Because I really don't care where we eat and you obviously do. Lets go, Chipotle it is.

The dinner question is solved with a game we call 4-2-1. One of us picks 4 places we'd like to go. The other narrows it to two, and then the first picks between those two.

Problem solved...

ah yes, the dreaded "where do you want to eat?" question.

My wife seems to believe that each and every meal should be memorable in some way; remarkable food, atmosphere, something. On my hand though, if the food is good or the location memorable then that is a bonus. If I am hungry, I eat and eating keeps me alive. That is all the commitment I need to the dining experience most of the time.

Yup. I'm pretty much sick of "fine dining". I'll always opt for a great local burger/rib joint with a great bar and loud music. My wife always wants to try someplace new. She likes it but it feels like work to me.

I just had to give my wife a hug. We're not June and Ward but we communicate well. She takes it nicely I point out her her foibles (if done with a bit of humor). Maybe we're just lucky.
Jim

On the first point -- you're right. And here's why. I HATE text messaging. Almost as much as I HATE being on the phone. So when it took more than 2 msgs to wrap things up, I got pissed and said "as long as I'm texting, it's going to be cathartic for me!"

It is a CONSTANT that she will send half of the information, apparently oblivious to the fact that I'll have to write back with a request for the other half that it's freaking obvious that I'm going to need, so why not include it in the first dayum place. BTW, I like that "Dayum"!

2nd -- I was actually on the fence about going. It would be nice to get it over with, and least inconvenient to go today (and she had the time off this weekend) but I really didn't feel up to it. For reasons I'll post in another thread later. If she'd wanted to go tonight, really really, I would be on the road right now.

But, whether she wanted to or not got lost in the short-circuit in our communication that pissed me off -- AGAIN! Once she'd said "black" when I said "white" --- and then told me I said "black" the underlying issue of whether we were going anywhere this weekend was a distant memory.

In my defense, I do say what I mean. Too much/forceably so perhaps, but in the 2nd instance I was trying to lay out that what I meant was I was on the fence.

Moses - I'm w/ you. I prefer ginmills to haute cuisine... and 99% of the time I'd rather sit at the bar and eat. Fortunately the current grilf is like that as well.

On the whole, she's a great girl and we have a great rel. But this is one of those things that has to change. Get the clue. Learn from the friction, etc. Gotta happen.

JP

OK, Slack...let me tell you how I get past all the zaniness that separates us from the fairer sex. It really is simple. And applies to everything in male female dynamics. Whether a minor yet irritating decision about where to eat or whether you get dumped for no reason. A bit crass but it works for me....

If you're tapping that azz (or did before she dumped you), you've won.:D

Y'all need to get a cat and live with it. My rule to understanding cats is called the "15 Second Rule." You will notice soon enough that a cat will make its move in 15 seconds after you initiate. Some cats are more spontaneous, but for the ones that are really plain ol' cats, this works. This is also why so many people like dogs. They don't want to play the cat game. However, how much fun can you have with an animal that never challenges you?

Once you can get a cat to do mostly what you want from it, you can do the same with a woman.

My analysis of your converstion:

ME: Hey, check X out. I'm thinking about buying it!

HER: I have a friend who owned an X. I can ask him about it if you'd like.

ME: Great! Please ask him to call me to discuss X ownership! Thanks (she thinks you want to buy it)

(10 minutes)

HER: He sold the X.

ME: OK. Is he going to call me?

HER: For what? (since it sold, she doesn't see your point)

ME: (resending prior text) To discuss X ownership. Do you even READ my text messages?

HER: I tried do do something nice for you and you're upset? I thought you wanted to buy X. (a very genuine response)

ME: It was a considerate offer, but I asked you specifically to ask him to call me, which was what I was interested in, and would be helpful, and which you didn't do. You did something nice, but useless. I didn't want to buy his X; where did that idea come from? I don't care if he HAS an X anymore, I care about discussing X ownerhip. this is a new comcept to her and she can't figure out why you're agitated.)

This degenerated into "if you think I'm so stupid, why do you date me?" (good question)

2nd converstion:

ME: Well, we could go tonight, but I'd rather wait a couple of weeks and plan to go, instead of having to pull this together at the last second.

HER: Me too; I'd rather go tonight.

ME: Wait, what? That's exactly not what I just said. (this is where you say, "I just changed my mind. Lets's wait.)

HER: No, you just said you wanted to go tonight. ("I know, but things change, you know that.")

ME: Holy. ****. Are you kidding me? (I repeat word for word what I'd said). How do you get from that that I want to go tonight? (Well, you wouldn't have gotten to this point.)

HER: Don't talk to me like I'm stupid. (Good point, if you know what's good for you.)

ME: Oh, so you're getting that vibe but you couldn't get what I'd actually said ten seconds ago? (Glad you refrained. That would have surely earned you a time out, maybe a permanent one.)

Ohhhh...you mean a real cat. Sorry...for a second there I thought you were using "cat" as a euphemism for, well, ummmm...

Like "My girlfriend got into her cups last night and she was throwin' that cat all over me.."


But you meant a real cat, huh?

Sorry for the interruption, Milt...carry on;)

Yeah, study a real feline. You gotta sit there stagnant for 15 seconds (which is a long time) after saying, "Comeer, kitty." If you do nothing, don't move, the cat will hesitate, then walk over. It's a PITA, no doubt, but very insightful AFA how women work. Oh, they shoot right back, but the real response is buried for a moment.

You know the old deal about if she says no, she means maybe and if she says maybe she means yes, etc. But, if she says yes, better stop and wait 15 seconds. ;)

Without reading all three pages? I was married 3 weeks short of 20 years and it was occasionally just like you posted. I have been in a committed live-in relationship with my girlfriend for 6 years and it has NEVER been like you posted. My take from very limited experience (admittedly) "If you can't communicate with them when they're your girlfriend do you really expect it to get better? How about after 10, 20 or 30 years? Uh ,no.

The diff? My wife was a girl with 1 year experience 20 times over. My girlfriend is a woman who is interested in communicating with me, not being right. Best of luck!

My brother's a vet and in his clinic he has a sign that reads:

"Dogs think they're human; cats think they're God."

I think the first part is correct. What would the sign read if the word "cats" was replaced with "women"? :D

I had to check the urban dictionary for "grilf."

Hey, everyone's got their little fetishes, I suppose. AARP'er need lovin' too.



"1. grilf

Grandma I'd Like To F**k

I know she's your grandma, but she's a hot grilf."

Easy there, cowboy. ;) :D

Sooooo..."GRILF" does stand for "Gay Rancher I'd Like to...." :eek:

Hey! I resemble that remark!:eek:

They keep sending me mailers and I keep throwing them out. Geez, can't they at least wait until I'm 55?:rolleyes:

Wait, I didn't think of that association. I never saw the movie and don't intend to. :p

I'm 61 and still have the ability to get to the medicine cabinet and take my Geritrol.

Heh. i have no idea where I picked up the term "grilf". Just saw it once and liked it. Like "dayum".

If it has some other, more nefarious meaning, so much the better!

JP

so what do you stay in the relationship for?

don't blame bill and newt, they have the same problem.

Amen, works for me...as I walk to towards the door, car keys in hand...

"I'm going to get some Thai food - want anything?"

Guys want action. Women want romance.

If you ask, "Where would you like to eat?", she is probably just happy to get on the road and be surprised by how thoughtful you are. By asking her to choose, you are making her responsible for the decision/meal/evening. She doesn't want that. Also, she doesn't want the same thing you had yesterday, because that denotes lack of thought. If you take her to the same place, she asks herself if the romance is gone. I like things I know I will like, I have learned to cast my food appreciation further afield to show her I'm interested in more than the food.

I used to get the same thing when asking my bride of thirty years what movie she would like to watch. I used to feel I was doing her a favour by asking her preference. She hated that.

It's about the experience and the conversation. The 'stream of consciousness' comments are pretty close in my experience. It is not the destination, but the journey, to them.

Les

JP- have you talked to your girlfriend or a girl friend? They might help more than guys with relationship problems.

I grew up with 5 step sisters who I hold dear. I don't UNDERSTAND girls, but I know HOW they will act and in this case, react. If you don't mind my opinion...

If you said something on the phone and she replied the exact opposite and then you said holy ****- that sounds like "you're stupid" to her. My sister says this about girls... "they will have a hard time segregating the meaning and the emotion." Girls relate to emotions. She hears anger. I mean this is no sardonic way.. it SOUNDS like you are angry.

You said she is bright and funny- was there a reason she stated the exact opposite? Did she not hear you right? Was there an earlier fight?

I don't want to get on here and start insulting your girlfriend or you. This is just what I've noticed being surrounded by girls growing up and dealing with my own anger fits.

I hope everything works out.

High maintenance girls are like that. When it comes to food.. I just don't care. Food + plate = me happy. I usually make girls pick too. Can be a headache. Although I did date a chick once (heavier) who knew EXACTLY what she wanted all the time. Who wants a picture? LOL :D

jp....jp....jp.......you're overcomplicating the whole issue.....
girls irritate us whenever we do guy stuff, just like how we as men can't figure out why it'll take a woman 2 hours to pick out a pair of shoes, then take them back the next day to exchange them for the first pair they picked.

women are indecisive and are always concerned that they'll make a decision which will make you think less of them, so they subconciously avoid making them, even the simplest of them like dinner choice.

you have to employ some caveman action.....when you're thinking about dinner.....tell her where you're taking her...don't ask, if she doesn't like your decision she'll tell you.....if she doesn't then she'll sit through the meal then ***** about it after the fact, which you then tell her "next time speak up".....this will make her comprehend that if she does in fact have to make some sort of decision.

when you're ready to goto toledo, tell her when you're going, don't ask, if she wants to go with you she will let you know.

finally....when you asked her to have her friend give you a call about X you should've said "what's the number so i can call them".

it's really simple caveman action.......:)

OPA!!!!!!

It's all about mutual respect...

JP, she does expect you to be the smart guy. ...Smart enough to take a look at the chess (checker?) board in front of you, in any given situation, and anticipate and calculate the optimal move. (yeah, she's being lazy)

In the case of the X, you should have seen early on that she was not thinking really hard about your desire to talk to X-owner. ...That you should have seen that and come up w/ the phrase " like 2 talk 2 X-owner anyway"

. . unless ofcourse, you actually saw the optimal move as being a bit of school'n on verbal com. --that lure often lands me in conflict too.

You f'ked up in the first place by ASKING her a QUESTION. I *never* ask girls questions if I can avoid it, I just tell them. It takes less time, requires less work, and keeps me from getting pissed off. You can't always avoid questions, but you can much of the time.

In in the case of the stream of consciousness I usually just say "STOP, that is NOT what I asked you, I asked X" and depending on the type of question ask for a yes/no answer. Example with a girl I'm kind of dating at school:

Me: Hey I'm going to Blazer, wanna go?
Her: I don't know, I have this lab report, I have to go tanning and you wouldn't believe...
Me: Oh my god, just stop talking. Stop, just shut up. Just say yes or no, 'are you going to blazer with me'?
Her: Yes.

Another example:

Me: Get dressed, we're going out to dinner. And wear something nice. Hurry up.
Her: Where are we go---
Me: I don't know, I haven't decided. I'm leaving in 20 minutes, be ready, I'll be downstairs. ::walks out::

The whole "little princess" mentality doesn't help either. **** pop culture for getting all these girls thinking that they are all princesses and models, and should be treated as such. Gurl power, ra-ra-ra!!! STOP THE BRAINWASHING!

3-1/2 pages to get to this-- the very best posture to take in a relationship with a woman.

Women especially women who have professional-level jobs have to be somewhat masculine all day. If you don't provide the safe refuge where they can be feminine, you will ultimately fail as a Significant Other.

That means you drive the small decisions. If she wants to differ on those decisions, she can speak up. Just assume she's happy to be in the passenger seat of the relationship -- but let her grab the wheel when she needs to. You want to really do it right, you'll have a plan B and C.