The sorry state of California freeways

[JMPRO]

I'm afraid the systems totally broke and the constant throwing money at the problem by Cal Trans won't fix it. Every time they decide to widen this section or that section it take years to get finished with multiple accidents and deaths before the project is done. Then as soon as its done, the lane or lanes is full of cars and going nowhere. Our freeways were for the most part designed in the 50s and all they have done since is try to fix all thats wrong with it. I don't believe anything short of a total revamping of the system will be anything but another band-aid. Maybe monorails for express passengers from major point to major point, maybe large carriers where you load 10 cars and their occupants and deliver then from lax to San Diego or wherever.Maybe an off shore tunnel like the chunnel used only for trucks and high occupant vehicles with only major destination inlets and outlets. Cal Trans has spent millions of dollars on car pool lanes that are almost unoccupied most of the time trying to force us to car pool, that is not the answer. I don't know the answer but at some point this native born Californian may just have to pack up and leave.
JMPRO

[nostatic]

try driving in the DC area. Or Boston. Then come back and blow kisses to Caltrans.

Offshore tunnel? Are you serious? How about people change their behaviors to match the changing conditions? Or move to another place.

[JMPRO]

I don't believe an off shore tunnel is the answer but why not, maybe we need some real offshore thinking to solve the problem.
JMPRO

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Too many people havin' too many kids. The problem will get worse as long as the population keeps going up.

[Tobra]

How to foment changes in behavior? Carrots don't work, so it is time to get out the stick. People are basically selfish and driven by immediate benefit to themselves, Americans in general and Californians in particular.

The answer in my opinion is to make using mass transit more attractive financially. People will not get out of their cars and start ridng the train or bus unless it is much more inexpensive to do so. It is inconvenient to use mass transit, or less convenient than driving your own car, so there must be something to encourage people to get out of their cars.

Problem is, any penalty put in place is likely to be financial. Say you raise the tax on gasoline by a factor of 10. This will discourage driving, but will be a regressive tax. It would also put a lot of extra cash in the hands of the legislature, not such a good thing if you ask me. They have plenty of money, but do not spend it wisely.

I realize the gas tax is very high in California already, but there have been too many years of neglect and spending the money on other things to quickly solve the problem

[JMPRO]

I think buses and trains are too old a techolnolgy to get us out of this situtation. Buses are only used for short rides around town and such while trains are still surface transporation which require crossings which many Calif. drivers don't know how to use safetly . More people are killed each year at railroad crossings in Calif. than in any other state.Disneyland has been using monorails for almost 50 years, why can't some kind of system like that be used . The state already owns the right- of -way to all the freeways so just use the space over the freeways for monorails. Just don't let every little two-bit town and shopping center lobby for a stop at their favorite location. There was talk of putting a monorail from L.A. to Vegas. The system would have taken millions of cars a year off of our local freeways, what happened to that idea. What about big ferrys abel to carry cars and trucks between major destainations.I watch the Discovery channel so i know any of these things can be done. I think one of the problems is that Cal Trans is so big and powerful and it needs to protect its power base and that means continueing the presant coarse of throwing money at the freeways instead of looking beyond for answers.
JMPRO

[Evans, Marv]

Tobra is right on many points. One problem is the legislature has not spent tax money designated for transportation on traffic circulation/transportation and maintenance issues. But we keep voting the bums into office, and they keep spending the money on their pet projects and programs - and it amounts to billions.
One thing is that the public transportation system is hell to use. Many years ago when I was going to the university, I took the bus to school for a week while my car was being fixed. It took me THREE hours to get there because of the circuitous and time consuming routes the bus took. It only took me 25 minutes by car. Every time I think about using public transportation, I think about that and stay in my car.
But here they are talking about spending something like 45% of the transportation money on public transportation, while only 2% of the people use it. That takes away from road building and improvements further.
I've taken subways in other big cities in the country and it was good. I've riden public transportation in foreign cities and it was fast and efficient. You just got on a bus on the street you wanted to go down until you changed bus to another direction you wanted to go. I never understood why it couldn't be like that here.
End of rant!

[tabs]

How bout a pay per mile system, with certain roads at certain times of the day becoming premium roads.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

They've tried that with the express lanes on the 91 freeway with some limited success. The problem is those are very limited and they ultimately dump you onto a congested freeway anyway.

[JMPRO]

I use the 241 toll road when i go south to check on my tental property . It costs like $3.00 or somthing like that and I use it not because its shorter or faster than the 405 but because i'm almost the only one on it.
I don't think a pay per mile system would be very good.Who's going to collect the money, the goverment, they have already shown a lack of smarts in this department.
JMPRO

[TerryH]

Yeah, those express lanes on the 91 are a sore spot to many. My facts may be off a little, but I think the added lanes were built by the toll operators at their expense. Now the real kicker is the state signed a contract not to expand the regular lanes for untold decades, maybe 20 years,... sort of a non-compete clause. Now, years later, the congestion is horrific, there are funds available to expand the regular lanes, but nothing can be done.

As for congestion overall, I would like to see some sort of distribution system alternative to the thousands of 18 wheelers that negotiate our roads every day. The two right lanes are pretty much nose to tail semi's all day long. Plus those tire shredding machines leave tire carcasses all over the place and it's no different than hitting a large brick if you are unlucky enough to come upon one.

Maybe instead of mass transit for people, make it available for cargo and make the roads safer for the rest of us.

[john70t]

Teamsters, Kenworth, Firestone, Texaco.

[rhjames]

After 27 years in the trucking business (owner/operator) driving all forty eight states, I offer you these thoughts:

1. lane restrictions for truck do not work----slows down all traffic, concentrates wear in the truck lanes instead of spreading it out over the others, creates unsafe environment for trucks and cars alike

2. lower speed limit for trucks (as opposed for cars)----again, restricts actual traffic flow, particularly where on/off ramps are involved, split speed limits are not safer----traffic moving at the same speed is safest

3. California has not built any "modern" highways in years, only half attempted to fix the problem with toll roads and a few highway extensions

4. Texas builds more/bigger highways when they have funds available----some of the best highways in the country, reasonable fuel tax rate/cost, relatively easy access to anywhere in the state, etc.

5. NE is a huge problem----rotten (literally) highways, always talking about "not enough money", failure to build for long term use (read: poor engineering), and too many lousy contractors

6. Midwest (Chicago)----getting more expensive all the time (i.e: high toll road rates, fuel taxes, split speed limits, etc.)

7. Louisiana----most corrupt government money can buy----no wonder their roads will literally beat your "whatever" your driving to an early death


Truck only lanes are a great idea, one who's time has come. Problem is getting governments to sanction this, without adding unnecessary expense to the trucking industry, something the government entities have been unwilling to do.

Benefits?

Many, best of which is separating cars from trucks.

Easier on the maintenance, less restrictive on the truck drivers themselves, traffic flow would be improved, and best of all-----it's SAFER for all.


regards---rhjames

[vash]

ok, i want to chime in. i work for caltrans. (i do bridges)

i think a major problem with california is urban sprawl. in san francisco, the city is a major "hub" of sorts. therefore, a rail system like BART works. but with all the major shopping centers with the IMAX theaters and stuff springing up, people need to drive. until the powers that be, stop spreading out, and maybe spend some $$ on high density living, nothing will change.

i talked to a few designers. in order to build a project, it takes 10 years to get money, do the design, get permits...yada yada . by then the project is most likely obsolete.

[Tobra]

The layout of the LA area has been repeated all over the state, indeed the country. Property developers pay(the legislature, city/county supervisors, whatever palm wants greasing) for the priviledge of building on land they purchased cheaply. In Sacramento, it is land aquired at a low price because it is a flood plain. Good for a few, bad for everyone else. Same way the airport here got built where it is. Terrible spot for an airport, but the county supervisors who owned it and chose the location were willing to sell the property to the county at a small premium. Bunch of freakin' crooks running the game.

There was a time when the lower deck of the Bay Bridge in SF/Oakland was 100% truck and train traffic. That went away, and it was not due to the public interest being served. Your friends at Goodyear, Firestone and the Petroleum Industry had a bit to do with that decision.

There are not going to be less cars and people anytime soon. If they are not getting from here to there on a train or bus, they are in a car. People in Cali are not going to ride their bicycles, it is that simple. It may not be a good answer, but mass transit is the only one out there. LA, San Diego and most of California are just not laid out for it. SF Bay Area has decent mass transit, but has the population density to support it.

Monorail does not solve the problem of crossings. Easier to have the cars go over the tracks than the tracks go over the cars. If we could just get enough of the right people to unsuccessfully attempt to traverse the existing RR crossings, the problem would be solved.

[Evans, Marv]

The idea of toll roads in CA pisses me off. Why should we all get screwed by paying a toll to use a road for which we have already (or should have) paid taxes for thru gas consumption? They are constructing a toll road in my area which will cost about $3 to start with (who knows how much it will be in the future) to travel the 8 to 10 mile length of it. If my wife uses it, the cost will be around $110 per month to go to work. What do we pay per gallon for a transportation tax - is it 34 cents? I don't remember, but if it is, that means she would be paying out the equivilant 323 gallons worth of gas tax in road tolls.

[TerryH]

toll roads = privately built roads

The premise is the toll road was built without tax dollars and that it wouldn't exist otherwise. I totally agree that we are paying enough tax-wise to not have to rely on these types of roads.

[Danny_Ocean]

Try driving in Miami. LA freeways are a dream vacation for me.

[Sonic dB]

Anyone have any updates on the widening of the 405 between
the airport and the 10 freeway area??? Is that going to make
any sort of impact to lessen the terrible traffic jam daily in that
area or is it just going to be akin to putting a finger in a dike?

[widgeon13]

too many people in too many square miles and too many cars, making bigger freeway is not the solution, fewer people driving is the solution.