1953 MB TD restoration. Any experience here?

RickM · RickM's Garage

A family friend has decided to have his 1953 right-hand drive MG TD restored. After discussing it for a while it appears that he wants a presentable "driver" car that can be kept in the family. His late dad bought it in the 60's and drove it occasionally. After 25 years or so of non use the engine was revived and is purportedly in good shape with the exception of a small leak that will be addressed.

Since the car has been garage kept I believe the body is in decent shape but pretty much every thing needs to be restored or replaced. FWIU, the car needs to have the interior redone, strip/paint, chrome, cabrio fabric and likely all the rubber and suspension bits. I believe the wooden steering wheel is pretty much toast as well.

So, the questions are:

- Is it worth restoring the individual pieces or going with repros.

- Has anyone restored a similar car? What was your experience/advice?

- What is the range of value for these cars?

- Is there an MG experienced restorer out their who offers good value for the $$$? (Need not be local to NNJ)

- Is the chassis made of wood? What are the options if this is compromised?

I look forward to your comments......

typ550 · 03-20-2007, 05:10 AM

Rick,

I will be happy to talk with you offline about this and offer any advice I can. I have not done a T-series (came close to doing a Tickford-bodied MGTA once), but I have done a nut and bolt on an MGA. Learned a lot, but frankly, I will never do it again.

The chassis is not made of wood, by the way. However, the body tub is metal skin over a wooden framework. What shape is that wood in? Replacement wood can be had or made, but building a tub can be a challenge.

IMHO, the TD is not valuable enough (there are so many still around) to justify the cost of a full-blown restoration. That said, there may be enough sentimental value for your friend to make it worthwhile (though not cost effective). How much work can he do himself?

typ550 · 03-20-2007, 05:16 AM

By the way, your friend is probably already familiar with it, but the New England MG T Register is a good place to be connected

http://www.nemgt.org/

Also, Craig Seabrook at The Whitworth Shop in OH is a good source for wood components or full body tub restoration. I visited Craig's shop when I was considering doing the MGTA.

Whitworth Shop
14444 Watt Road
Novelty, OH 44072
216-338-5950
Craig Seabrook

typ550 · 03-20-2007, 05:27 AM

Oops, forgot, there is also a "pelican-like" (though not nearly as good) board for MG stuff at http://www.mgcars.org.uk/

If your friend registers on the site, he can search the archives and find a lot of valuable info

RickM · RickM's Garage

Chris,

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately this friend is not at all mechanically inclined. He wants to have the job done by a capable shop but at he same time wants to keep the restoration to a sensible level.

I'll definitely check out the forum and links you listed.

RickM · RickM's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by typ550

The chassis is not made of wood, by the way. However, the body tub is metal skin over a wooden framework. What shape is that wood in? Replacement wood can be had or made, but building a tub can be a challenge.

Oh, there may be an issue with the tub/framework. He was told the body/tub would have to come off to make an assessment.

typ550 · 03-20-2007, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RickM
Chris,

He wants to have the job done by a capable shop but at he same time wants to keep the restoration to a sensible level.

That, unfortunately, is the challenge. He should post the question on the TD/TF board on the MG Enthusiast's site.

Joeaksa · 03-20-2007, 07:04 AM

Rick,

You do this type of restoration because you love the car. A TD is not going to make anyone any real money in the end but would be a lot of fun. Done several MG's and 550's advice is spot on.

Joe

Dantilla · 03-20-2007, 08:09 AM

A guy I know has an early MG-TD he has been planning on restoring for several years. In the meantime, its been sitting OUTSIDE! In rainy Western Washington!

Slowly rotting away. Pretty sad.

typ550 · 03-20-2007, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dantilla
A guy I know has an early MG-TD he has been planning on restoring for several years. In the meantime, its been sitting OUTSIDE! In rainy Western Washington!

Slowly rotting away. Pretty sad.

Sadly, that was the story on the MG-TA that I was interested in. A neighbor had bought it in Sussex in 1974 and brought it to the States and parked it. There it sat, in an open door garage, until about a year ago. Tree fell on the garage during an icestorm a few years ago and they rebuilt the garage around the car without moving it.

Here's what it could have looked like, if it had been cared for

rouxroux · 03-20-2007, 08:59 AM

Save your money and just buy a great one next month from the Gene Ponder Collection (for you MG types, I need say no more)...Mr. Ponder's collection goes up on the auction block next month, and I must say he has the best collection of quality MG's ANYWHERE (although I love to just drool over his MB Gullwing & his Dinos (Ferrari & Fiat)).

typ550 · 03-20-2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rouxroux
Save your money and just buy a great one next month from the Gene Ponder Collection (for you MG types, I need say no more)...Mr. Ponder's collection goes up on the auction block next month, and I must say he has the best collection of quality MG's ANYWHERE (although I love to just drool over his MB Gullwing & his Dinos (Ferrari & Fiat)).

I can't believe the estimate they have on Ponder's reproduction C-type. Then again, one sold at Amelia for $137,500. May have to take mine to an auction here before long!

RickM · RickM's Garage

Good advice from all.

If this were my car I would have no problem doing the restoration myself. He realizes the car will not be worth a mint and therefore wants to find some middle ground on sprucing her up. I'm here trying to get some education from anyone with MG experience.

The one shop he went to admitted they were not MG experts and gave him a $20k - $25k estimate for a pretty thorough going through. I'm going to meet them next week and see what's involved. I haven't seen this car in 30 years. If possible I'd like to have an alternative (experienced) shop (or two) to talk to.

Regarding the purchase of a mint example, it won't happen. This car was his late dads and he's looking to preserve his memory as this car was a favorite toy.

rouxroux · 03-20-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by typ550
I can't believe the estimate they have on Ponder's reproduction C-type. Then again, one sold at Amelia for $137,500. May have to take mine to an auction here before long!

Yes, I thought the same on that, but it is "no reserve"...Luckily, our local PCA group has arranged "one last private showing" by him before the auction. He's a neat fellow. (Ah, if I only had $)...he has a few signs and gas pumps I really like as well. Just watch, the 34 Duesie boattail will probably wind up in Leno's garage.

typ550 · 03-20-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RickM
Good advice from all.

The one shop he went to admitted they were not MG experts and gave him a $20k - $25k estimate for a pretty thorough going through. I'm going to meet them next week and see what's involved. I haven't seen this car in 30 years. If possible I'd like to have an alternative (experienced) shop (or two) to talk to.

If it were me and I was paying a shop to do the work, I would want to be sure they had worked with T-series MGs before. If the tub needs repairs, having the degree of experience to get everything to line up right, hanging the doors properly, etc., is going to be important.

Again, I would advise putting a post out on the T-boards on MG Enthusiasts asking for suggestions of specific shops to speak to.

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

Funny you should ask------

My Dad has a 53 TD, left hand drive. He's the second owner, bought it when it was 2 years old (1955).

I helped him rebuild the motor when I was 13 years old, 34 years ago......a total pain in the ass when you're rebuilding the motor while it's still in the car (pistons have to come in and out through the bottom of the engine--try doing that under-car, on a cold garage floor, compressing piston rings with your fingers until they bled, all while trying to shove the piston/rod past the crankshaft from underneath the car).

As for restoration, been there done that. His will need to be done again, as my sisters pretty much beat it up when they drove it in high school.

I was involved in the first resto he did to his, before my sisters got to it, and it is not for the mechanically challenged. Cars like these need to be taken to a very reputable resto shop, specializing in very old British sports cars.

Hardest part of this is restoring the body, chassis, and the various wood pieces in the coachwork. There are replacement pieces (wooden coachwork) available from Moss---see below. Some of these pieces sell for as much a $1900 (front fenders).

There are replacement body pieces (usually fiberglass reproductions), but any competent body shop shold be able to repair any steel body pieces that are rotted or damaged.

The one best source for parts (any T series MG) is Moss motors in California. They have a nice website, and just about everything you may need to do your resto, right or left hand drive.

Dad keeps saying he's got to get on with another resto of his TD, but I have yet to see any effort on his part.

Best of luck with yours, if there is anything I can help with, PM me and maybe my limited experience with this model can help.

regards---rhjames

tabs · 03-20-2007, 10:32 AM

On Saturday I saw a older restoration of a 1953 MG TD sell at auction for $13,750 + 15% commis..It was in running condition and looked nice, it had been sitting in a Garage for years.

Also at the same auction a 1976 Cadilliac Convertible with 1280 miles on it sold for $14,200 + 15% commis.

fuelie600 · 03-20-2007, 12:26 PM

Rick,

I restored my 53 TD a few years back. All of the advice above is spot on. I can add my $0.02...

As others above have stated, TDs are not high dollar cars when they have been restored, but they cost more to restore than many other antique sports cars. Because they are coach built, they require a restoration shop with the ability to work with wood. Wood is used to form the body tub skeleton, then restored panels are installed or fit to the wood. Painting these cars is the next challenge. To do a proper job, the car is painted in pieces and then assembled. This means painting not only the tub, but four hood pieces inside and out, 4 fenders top and bottom, running boards, fuel tank, splash pans, etc. Many paint shops don't will not to touch a TD.

Because of this, restoring to driver condition isn't really practical. If you are going to go to the trouble, it's better to do a full restoration, since the cost won't be much higher.

You described the body as being in good shape. If the old lacquer paint can be polished out and provide a livable shine, he might be able to get by with a rolling restoration. He could have an interior kit installed and just enjoy the car as is.

At a minimum, I would find a shop capable of restoring the brakes and installing a new wiring harness.

If you friend would like to know what a full TD restoration means I would recommend the following book: http://www.nemgt.org/tdmanual.htm This book is the best resource available for TD restoration.

Here are answers to your questions:

So, the questions are:

- Is it worth restoring the individual pieces or going with repros. It depends on the piece. Body panels should be restored, but things like bumpers should be repros. Some of the repros are junk, so you need to check prior to deciding. The MG forum above is a good source.

- Has anyone restored a similar car? What was your experience/advice? see above. I still haven't totaled up my receipts from my restoration. I did all of the work myself, and I still don't want to know what I spent! (I did win an award of excellence at a show last year. The guy next to me asked if the plaque was worth the expense....)

- What is the range of value for these cars? $3500 for a basket case to $30000+ for a concours restoration.

- Is there an MG experienced restorer out their who offers good value for the $$$? (Need not be local to NNJ)
There isn't really a nationally known quality shop, but there are many shops with great reputations for doing parts of the cars. For example, Craig Seabrook mentioned above is known for dash work, body tubs, and body timbers.

- Is the chassis made of wood? What are the options if this is compromised?

The chassis is conventional. Here is a picture of my rolling chassis.

The body tub is formed over a wooded skeleton. Here is a picture of my body wood:

Without more detail on the car, it's hard to make solid recommendations. If you and your friend would like to talk off line, drop me a PM. I can give you better advice with more information.

RickM · RickM's Garage

This info is fantastic. I will take pics next week and post.

Evan (and others) thanks for taking the time to share you experience and pics. The two above say describe alot!

Also, all the sales/auction $$ and value ranges are right in line with what my friend was told.

BTW, his car was originally green (I assume British Racing or similar) and was repainted to an off-white. I'm trying to convince him to go back to original.