No. I'm a Gun Nut. Get it right.

Does the design or intent make anyone less dead? Show me where gun laws have reduced violence. Come visit me in DC. I'll show you areas where all guns are banned that you wouldn't want to enter without a military expeditionary force.

horrible.

I expect that the guy did NOT have a CHL

He is also carrying a weapon in a weapon free zone

Threatening people is illegal

Shooting people is definitely illegal

Killing people is illegal

Killing yourself is illegal

Any other laws this guy broke?

This guy was committing felonies before he fired the first shot. No laws stop people like this.

I'm in DC 8-12x a year so next time I'll skip the dangerous area tour and instead meet you at Clydes for a drink or two :p

I'm not arguing for gun control, hell I'm not arguing, unless someone thinks a country with guns (take ours for example) is somehow as safe, or more safe, than a country w/o guns and tough gun laws.

If you think it doesn't take any guts to look someone in the eyes, while you have them lined up against a wall, and shoot them, watching their head explode in a pink misty cloud of brain matter, blood and shards of bone, and then see their brains and blood smeared across the wall, you're simply out of your ****ing mind. Oh yea, then repeat a few times.

This is NOT the movies people, when you shoot someone point blank, things, especially heads, explode. It is very, very messy.

Also, as to it being EASY to pull a trigger, I've talked to combat vets who initially couldn't pull the trigger WHILE BEING SHOT AT IN A COMBAT SITUATION. Pulling a trigger, especially on an unarmed person, is no easy task, don't let Holly Weird deceive you.

Edit:

No, this isn't mean to be as combative as it sounds...

CHL holders are about 2% of the population, at least here in Texas. Rick will have better numbers for VA. By that percentage, at least one of the students killed or wounded would have had a firearm. And there were a lot more people in that building, so the chance is there would have been a much higher number.

What did we have? A situation where the law abiding citizens are NOT ALLOWED to protect thier own life. They can obey, run or play dead. If some of the students or professors had been armed, it still would have been horrible. Just not this horrible.

But it's easier when you have a gun and a death wish.

My condolences to those affected by this senseless tragedy.

Pretty sure a sign banning CCW cannot make you a criminal in VA. It can make you a trespasser, but only if you refuse to leave when asked. I know for sure I can legally carry openly or concealed in any state gov't. bldg. except a courthouse or school. I have carried in DMV before. It's totally legal. And I sometimes carry in restaurants where alcohol is served, which is a misdemeanor, but I don't drink when I do so.

any more updates? You guys are my media who I have boycotted - anyone who messes up the details here will hear about it form the rest. You guys are better than the networks!

Well, I work for a news agency and I'm sure many of our clients will have commentary for us to send out to the AP. I can't stand to read most of it. Am listening to the press conf. on CNN now and, as expected, it's a bunch of incredibly ignorant journalists asking questions that the chief of police is declining to answer. Stuff like this really makes me want to carry more often than I do. But it's just such a PITA sometimes. Luckily, cops in VA are about as gun-friendly as they come.

Why don't you open carry in the restaurants?

If U watch the Video that CNN is playing you can hear 27 shots, this guy was taking his time and aiming...there were a few shots and then abit of silence and a flurry of shots...probably when he opened the door on the next class room....

My wife and I both carry. When people ask us why, I always answer, "Do you watch the news?"
I'm not saying if I were there I could have stopped the nut but, I could have made him pay alot of attention to me and not the unarmed.
Have you ever noticed the nicest people you will ever meet are at the range?

Again....the duels between advocates and the rest of the world.

Frankly, as I have posted before, I am NOT in favor of banning firearms, nor am I in favor of legislation that makes it impossible to own same.

What I AM tired of is the asinine mantra of : "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." That may be true, but if anyone with a modicum of common sense reads the knee jerk responses that "NOW I'm gonna start to carry" you can see the fear that proliferation breeds. Is Lott correct that if everyone carried, things would be more civil and peaceful? For some reason, I seriously doubt that would be the case. THere is always going to be the crackpot who will get his hands on a firearm and do damage. I shudder to think how many more victims there might have been if the students were also armed, firing at whoever they thought was the perp.

I do not agree that it is universally difficult for someone to kill with a firearm. Unless your intended victim is similarly armed, the physical damage to you as the shooter is nil. There is a physical, emotional and psychological disconnect. Hand to hand combat involves risk to both parties; an armed individual against one who is not armed is a one sided contest.

"Guns do not kill people. People with easy access to guns kill people."

I have wondered about the trouble spots in the world where firearms really do proliferate. Seems as if in these places the death tolls are pretty high, relatively speaking. Anyone have any independently gathered data on this?

Sorry..... but I find this "weapon free zone" thing you all keep bringing up is stupid. Have any of these shootings been at a "weapons OK zone?"

Sorry, I'm all for weapons free zones. i wouldn't want to sit next to the guy who can't get his reports issued knowing he has a gun in the desk any more than I'd want my kids going to school with people having guns in the bookbag.

I'm not anti-gun, I hang with Rick, even. But I'm more, anti-gun in places where I shouldn't have to expect guns. Work, schools, etc. If I go to the rough part of town, I know that I am literally outgunned and plan accordingly.

What I'm curious about is what he did after shooting the two in the dorm? Was he planning this all along, or the aftereffect of the first shotting. What did he do for 2 hours? Have coffee, surf the net? It's curious to know the thought pattern here... surely not rational.

Guns are like SUVs: When everybody has one, you`re better off having one too if you want to stand any chance of survival in a hit. It is just a vicious circle.

Aurel

"The world is too much with us"
 

The world is too much with us; late and soon,
Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers:
Little we see in Nature that is ours;
We have given our hearts away, a sordid boon! 4
This Sea that bares her bosom to the moon;
The winds that will be howling at all hours,
And are up-gathered now like sleeping flowers;
For this, for everything, we are out of tune; 8
It moves us not.--Great God! I'd rather be
A Pagan suckled in a creed outworn;
So might I, standing on this pleasant lea,
Have glimpses that would make me less forlorn; 12
Have sight of Proteus rising from the sea;
Or hear old Triton blow his wreathed horn.

--William Wordsworth

Lets see if it is OK to have a weapon:

Schools: No
Post Office: No
My Company's office: No
Colleges in VA: No
Church: No
All of Washington DC: No

The point is, it is illegal to have a weapon in these areas. It only stops law abiding citizens. Note that Rick states when he is in DC, he does not carry. He is a law abiding citizen, even though he does not agree with the law.

The old adage is: You carry a pistol just in case. If you think you will need a gun, carry a rifle and bring friends with rifles.

Let's see which of these places have had mass shootings?

Schools: No
Post Office: No
My Company's office: No
Colleges in VA: No
Church: No
All of Washington DC: No

ALL OF THEM. Well, maybe not Red-Beard's office, but plenty of other offices have. Did the cops prevent any of them?

No, we had a shooting in our offices. Only 2 dead.

Exact same thing I want to know. You're in some kind of jealous rage, you think your life is ****ed, so you kill two people in cold blood. Then you have 2 hours and 45 minutes to hang out because campus is on lockdown. What are you doing for those almost 3 hours? Like you said, is he having coffee? Sitting with classmates, some of whom he might gun down in a few more minutes?

With such a long time frame, I would think any "temporary insanity" would be over with...generally doesn't a court only give you a few minutes?

I dunno..I'm just a little amazed even with a long break to think about what the fsck he was doing, this guy went and killed 30 more people....

I'm not sure who's debating who here, but IIRC none of these massive shooting things have been ended by an armed populace. I don't think it would have helped...how can you stop someone who's so hell-bent on destruction and dying themselves? Just like you can't shoot a suicide bomber. They are already dead inside.

Now, robberies, home invasions, maybe some road rage stuff, gang bangers, sure. Guns (and an armed populace) are a great deterrent to people who are afraid of getting shot. This was not the case.

Just to be clear, I'm not anti-gun, just anti-taking in everywhere. Do I believe in CCW, sure I guess so. I know guys like Rick are pretty responsible, and probably most other CCW folks, but there's a time and place for everything. And I think that college campuses full of overstressed hormoned up young adults that are still trying to manage growing up, are probably not the place for weapons.

(However, truth be told, this is only because I'm thinking about it. I have been to VT a couple of times and attended VT's other campus. Never gave the fact I couldn't bring the gun I don't have to class. :D )

Recently in Utah, an off-duty cop with a concealed weapon, shot and killed a deranged muslim shooting people at a mall. He was carrying on a CHL, not as an officer.

OK, a mall is more "public" than a school. Glad for him doing that.

I stand my my original statement. A college campus really isn't a place for weapons...stress, hormones, alcohol, drugs, lots of random people moving around and in your stuff? I went to college, it's more like a commune than how we live as adults. Stuff went "missing" all the time...adding guns to the mix isn't going to make it better.

No place is a "good" place for guns.

I was probably one of only a handful on a campus of 28,000 students who carried on campus. With numbers like that, chances are pretty slim a CCW'er is gonna prevent something. But show me a single case where a CCW'er has committed a crime with a gun. If it has ever happened, it's so rare as to not warrant a mention. When you need a gun, nothing else in the world will substitute for one. And the cops will never save you.

would it make me the most cynical guy here if i were to suggest that by tuesday afternoon some opportunistic douchebag will be hawking t-shirts with the slogan;
"i survived the va. school shootings....etc."?

From what I've heard on the news, it appears to be two different shooters.

The first was described by witnesses as a white guy with greasy hair.

The second, who killed himself, was a Chinese guy.

Of course, all of this is still developing and subject to change, but that's what I heard a few minutes ago.

Told my wife from Cut'n'Shoot Texas this tale and the first thing she said is she would have shot some guy waving a 9mm around. She would have too.

Some people are able to turn it on and off, some of the stuff she told me about when she worked in the ER made me ask why she kept going back.

"I am good at it."

She is just the right person to have around when bad things happen. Does not rattle when it matters. Good shot too.

Shame about all this. I think of what it would have done to me if it happened to my kid. Change your life in the worst way, don't know how you could recover.

Outlaw guns, outlaws only ones with guns, yada, yada

Very poor taste Jeff. You need to realize, some on this board know some who are now lost.

I guess now we know... and it's worse than we could have thought.

It's just been announced on the evening news that he sent a package to NBC news, content of which has been turned over to the FBI. Supposedly sent in between the two shooting events.

Story just keeps getting worse all the time.