Flags at half-staff for VT victims. But why?

[techweenie]

Coincidentally, 100 times as many soldiers have died in Iraq in the past four years than died at Virginia Tech. But we don't fly our flags at half staff for them. The news outlets don't show photos of their funerals or interview their families and don't list their names in news stories.

Are they any less of a loss to America?

-------excerpt--------
"Following the deaths of 32 Virginia Tech students, the President of the United States ordered that all American flags be flown at half-staff for one week. …

But I find it ironic that the flags were flown at half-staff for the young men and women who were killed at VT yet it is never lowered for the death of a U.S. servicemember.

Is the life of Sgt. Alexander Van Aalten, a member of our very own task force, killed April 20 in Helmand province not valued the same as these 32 students? Surely his death was as violent as the students.

Aalten’s death lacked the shock factor of the Virginia massacre. It is a daily occurrence these days to see X number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq or Afghanistan scrolling across the ticker at the bottom of the TV screen. People have come to expect casualty counts in the nightly news; they don’t expect to see 32 students killed.

Six U.S. soldiers died on the day of the Virginia Tech shooting. In total, 3312 U.S. troops have died in the Iraq war and 337 in Afghanistan."

---------------full story-------------
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/23/wilt-troops/

[Moneyguy1]

A good question. Perhaps, until there is an end to the situation "over there", the flag should be permanently at half-mast.

[speeder]

I wondered the same thing; as awful a tragedy as the shooting rampage was, it had nothing to do with the U.S. government and similar incidents with a lower body count have never lowered the flag. I think that the statement of condolence, (and disgust), from the president was appropriate but the flag thing was a little odd.

Then again, it was sort of unprecedented in its scale.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by speeder
I wondered the same thing; as awful a tragedy as the shooting rampage was, it had nothing to do with the U.S. government and similar incidents with a lower body count have never lowered the flag. I think that the statement of condolence, (and disgust), from the president was appropriate but the flag thing was a little odd.

Then again, it was sort of unprecedented in its scale.

Sadly that particular scale is always moving. I'm sure it will be surpassed soon enough.




http://www.svrc.net/ShootingsMap.htm

[Moneyguy1]

Today a few more murders made the news. People kill people.

Man walks into his bedroom, finds his wife in bed with his best friend. He immediately takes out his .38 and points it toward his own forehead.

His wife starts laughing.

"What are you laughing at? You're next!!"

[Gogar]

That's an interesting map. Where's the pelican gun lobby?

Consider Idaho, one of the most gun-soaked states in the union . . . . . .

[Moneyguy1]

Wow. Look at California and Texas!!

[strupgolf]

Good point. Many more gave their lives for our country, but we dont lower the flag for them. It's a sad day, but not 1/2 flag day for a month. It's all so P.C. these days that you dont want to PO## any group, otherwise you wont "get their vote".

[turbo6bar]

I believe in one day last week, 180+ Iraqis died in attacks. Is American freedom worth more than the thousands of Iraqis who have died?

[Moneyguy1]

turbo..I am trying to decipher your post and am having difficulty.

[turbo6bar]

In the context of this thread, VT students die and the nation is captivated. In the same span of time, 180+ Iraqis die in attacks and it's just another day at the office. While I understand the sorrow over the tragic event in Virginia, methinks folks are ignoring the forest and focusing on the acorn.

[Moneyguy1]

Ask not for whom the bell tolls......

Like I have said before, death at a distance is far more acceptable.

[turbo6bar]

It's beyond flying the flag at half staff. Why do we value the lives of fellow Americans infinitely, but show little regard for those outside our borders.

Can you imagine the outrage HERE if 20...30... 100 Americans died every day due to suicide attacks, rampaging gunmen, or bombings?

[MRM]

Our state lowers the flag whenever a state soldier is killed in Iraq.

[turbo6bar]

Yeah, you're right. I'm just venting while hoping not to offend.

My apologies.

[Moneyguy1]

+1 for Minnesota. The flag must be down quite a bit of the time recently.

[p911dad]

The difference is if your kid goes to Iraq, you have that awful nagging thing in the back of your brain that he or she may not be coming back, they have signed up for a risk, and you expect it. Going away to college is a completely different set of expectations:your kid is going to school, not war. A significant difference, in my opinion, and it is such a revolting and unexpected result that the national psyche takes a hit. No matter how many schools get attacked, you will never expect it to happen to your kid or your town; anytime a child goes off to war, you know you will always worry it will happen.

[cashflyer]

Just gonna tack this on here rather than start a new thread:

BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- An adjunct professor was fired after leading a classroom discussion about the Virginia Tech shootings in which he pointed a marker at some students and said "pow."

The five-minute demonstration at Emmanuel College on Wednesday, two days after a student killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus, included a discussion of gun control, whether to respond to violence with violence, and the public's "celebration of victimhood," said the professor, Nicholas Winset.

During the demonstration, Winset pretended to shoot some students. Then one student pretended to shoot Winset to illustrate his point that the gunman might have been stopped had another student or faculty member been armed.

"A classroom is supposed to be a place for academic exploration," Winset, who taught financial accounting, told the Boston Herald.

He said administrators had asked the faculty to engage students on the issue. But on Friday, he got a letter saying he was fired and ordering him to stay off campus.

Winset, 37, argued that the Catholic liberal arts school was stifling free discussion by firing him, and he said the move would have a "chilling effect" on open debate.

The college said Monday that the firing was not about academic freedom, but rather his "insensitivity toward the students who were murdered at Virginia Tech" and "his use of obscene and discriminatory language." Winset was "disparaging the victims as rich white kids combined with an obscene epithet. He did not do this as part of an open debate with his students," the statement said.

Student Junny Lee, 19, told The Boston Globe that most students didn't appear to find Winset's demonstration offensive.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/04/23/professor.fired.ap/index.html

A website from another college posted this:

I find this particularly bothersome given my favorite teachers have often been controversial and unpopular with the administration.

The short version is this teacher led a discussion in which he "shot" 6 students with a marker, then had a student that was in on the demonstration stand up and "shoot" the teacher. He used this example to spur a discussion on gun control. His intent was to neither be pro or against, just discussion.

He also stated that VT, while tragic, should be put into perspective to the number of troops killed each day in Iraq, or the number of people who die of Aids. Again, unpopular language, but meant to spur discussion, not belittle the tragedy at VT. Since when do teachers get fired for saying mean or spiteful things to get students to discuss topics?

I have set a letter to the President of Emmanuel College, Sister Eisner, and would encourage you guys to do the same and post this on other message boards as well. College is all about discussion and thinking, not mindless lecturing from a text book. If teachers get fired for this kind of thing, even if it is stupid or unpopular, college classes will take a drastically different form in the future.

Sr. Janet Eisner, SND
617-735-9825
pres@emmanuel.edu

[widgeon13]

You may as well have sent it to the Pope, Sister Mary Adolf will not likely change HER mind.

Did you ever attend parochial school? It is certainly not a democracy, actually the other end of the spectrum.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by turbo6bar
I believe in one day last week, 180+ Iraqis died in attacks. Is American freedom worth more than the thousands of Iraqis who have died?

I think I might undestand this, I was thinking something similar. Like the Iraqi lose that many a day because we removed their government. Then again, that former government killed so many that the flag should of been at half mast since the late 1950's.