Highway Rapery - how high will they go?
 

A few weeks ago I posted a Highway Robbery Thread with a picture of alocal station's gas prices.

I pased them today and just about greased my pants. :eek: :eek: :eek:

"Scuse me sir, hand me the lube, while I bend over, will ya?"


http://www.wolfetone.com/carstuff/rapery.jpg

U live in a state that Bush hates, so U boyz are gona get reamed. That is until U throw the Liberal bums who run your state outa office. Then gas prices will come down. "Either U join the Repblicans or we are gona fk U." Dick Cheney

The state has begun "looking into" the high gas prices here. Funny thing is, the state adds on huge amount of gas taxes...and they wonder why it's so high?
Heard on the news tonight that we're much higher than the national average.

I'm not a political person but...
..screw Bush. He should have been burnt on Mount Horeb.
(I'm not religious either, I just throught it was too good to pass up)

Is that how democracy works? U are very funny, my friend.

I'll bet you could get a steal on that Lincoln about now.

$3.83 for Unleaded? That's the "Spirit"

:rolleyes:

Stop complaining. My parents were over the other month and told me that they have passed the 1 pound per LITRE mark in the UK. That equates to about $8 per gallon.
To be honest, and I am sure this will be hugely unpopular, but I think we need higher gas prices here. It would do us good to start looking at vehicles as economical trasportation rather the the largest SUV in the neighborhood. Sure, some people need a large vehicle but there are more efficient options than a honking great SUV.

You're right that would be hugely unpopular. You have to think of the ramifications of such a move on the cost of many consumer goods which would be enacted as a result of higher freight fees being passed through. We run a fleet of 25-30 diesel pick-ups, and everytime the price of fuel rises, so do our costs, and as a result our prices.

Do you get to deduct the tax on the fuel expenditure?

Re: Highway Rapery - how high will they go?
 

As I have posted so many times before on this board, oil production worldwide is flat for the last two years, while demand has continued to rise. This is not a temporary event, this is the new way of things. Expect the cost to go even higher this summer.


see www.eia.doe.gov for the nitty gritty, or www.theoildrum.com if you want to be depressed.

Even if he does, it is only a deduction off of earnings, not a tax credit. It's not like the government is paying your business expenses.

The price of fuel is what it is, and it has been the final nail in the coffin of my 30+ year car/motorsports addiction. I have all but completely lost interest in cars as any kind of hobby or enjoyable distraction from the rest of life. The disgusting thing of course is the reasons why fuel prices have jumped so dramatically under the disastarous leadership of Bush/Cheney. It's just another wonderful "side benefit" to their completely failed foreign and domestic policies which the entire world will be effected by. Basically it is a tranference of an enourmous amount of wealth from the public everywhere to the hands of oil companies and their (large) shareholders. Don't forget the millions(?) of gallons that all of the Fire/Police/city maintanence/Muni bus and train lines/etc. everywhere in the world use and that the public pays for.

That is the true Bush/Cheney legacy: The unprecedented transfer of wealth from public to (a few) private hands. And the Chinese. :(

I agree with the premise, but I have no desire to see the government get another tax windfall.

No, and the costs easily add an additional 10-15 percent to the overall cost of a given project--in the past several years, crane companies have even added a straight "fuel surchage percentage" to their bills--with is usually between 6-8 percent of the total invoice cost. Add in the increases in freight to get materials to projects, the increase in keeping manlifts/forktrucks/generators/welding machines fueled, and the travel costs to get men to and from the projects and the money gets serious--especially on the larger projects.

Meanwhile oil companies are making all-time RECORD PROFITS each quarter, everytime there is an inkling of a perceived threat to refineries and/or oil fields(be it man-made or weather-related) the price of both oil and gasoline immeadiately increases. Yet when the threat passes, notice how long it takes for those prices to decrease to the pre-threat levels--which they usually do not even reach. And nobody who is in a true position of power who can affect these practices does a thing.--CAHOOTS! CAHOOTS I say. :p

You guys in CA are paying about a dollar more across the board then we are here in MO. I suspect it has to do more with the amount of taxes levied on gas then on the price of crude oil.

The difference in the UK is that most of the $8 per gallon is in tax. Combine that with the fact that diesel is much cheaper and I don't think it hurts commercial operation to the same extent. This way it is the retail consumer that really sees the high fuel costs.
I think we are already starting to see some 'benefits' of increased fuel costs. I had been visiting the USA since the late 70's before moving here and I can see that there are a lot more small cars both available and on the road. I am sure there are people you know that are talking about buying a small commuter car or even a motorcycle for the daily drive. I believe we are experiencing a degree of culture change where a small car no longer is automatically viewed as being for a low income driver.

The final scorecard on this "administration" will be beyond embarrassing. Next year, the libs will be able to toss spending statistics out that will leave no doubt as to who the "conservatives" really are.

Gas prices before the Dubya "administration":
Gas prices after:

Federal gubmit spending before:
Spending during the "administration":

Number of federal gubmit employees before:
After:

Oil company profits before:
During:

Real wages (adjusted for inflation) before:
After:

I think Hitler could win this next election, as long as he does not run on the "R" ticket. The one good thing, as I mentioned years ago, is that this "administration" is going to teach America why it does not usually put people in charge who hate government and place commerce over public welfare. The proportion of people who still support Dubya and those of his ilk, is at the 30% level that is the "floor." The same proportion of folks who believe we are in contact with Aliens.

I will never understand how Bush and Cheney get blamed for the price of gas. But since I think gas should be $7-8 per gallon, I guess Bush and Cheney have been doing a good job then. We should have a floor tax on gas, so it never gets below $4-5 per gallon. That might teach Americans to start conserving. Nothing else will.

I don't know. Personally I think that $8 per gallon is a little excessive. I mean, in the USA there really is no other way for a lot of people to get about as the distances between places is so great. Remember that the UK is a fraction of the size and it is fairly unusual to travel more than 10 miles to work. Also there is a public transport system - it's not very good, but there is one. Basically there isn't the quite the same dependancy on fuel if you are prepared to adapt. I don't think you could do realistically do that here unless you live and work in a major city. But I don't think that $3-$4 per gallon is unrealistic. Do I prefer cheap gas? Heck yes, but It doesn't make a huge difference to me with a reasonably efficient (and fun) car and average commute.

In America, every poke has an SUV pig in it. That's why gas prices are high.

As it is now, it's way cheaper for me to drive to work than take public transportation. Even if I didn't ride a motorcycle that gets around 42 mpg, it's cheaper to drive. That's the problem. Plenty of folks in Europe live far from any public trans. too, they make less money and are taxed way higher and still find a way to own a car and get around.

This was very predictable. Explaining away the obvious is......curious at first. By now, it's gotten sad and funny. Coincidence? Where did you go to school?

Cue sammyg in 4... 3... 2... 1...

If it's obvious, you should have no problem explaining it. And all of your explanations on just about every issue here in OT have not convinced me of anything other than the fact that you are wrong. Maybe this one would be easier for you. How do Bush and Cheney control the gas prices in other countries which are far higher than they are here?

It's funny people have no problem paying $8 for a pack of cigarettes, $4 for a cup of coffee, or $20 to $100 or more for a bottle of wine, but ask them to pay for something they need to use and everyone goes bananas. Start calculating the waste of your "hard earned" paycheck and cut corners where you are guilty!

I think that's why I don't smoke, have never been in a Starbucks, and rarely spend over $12 on a bottle of wine - I'd rather drive my 911 than do any of those.

It does make a HUGE difference to the people that live in the majority of the physical land area of the US. All you guys talk about how great it would be for gas to go up because it would force "them" to drive more efficient vehicles. Well that is all fine and good for someone ridding a desk in some big city, but what about the guy out on a small farm that MUST have his big wasteful truck to be able to operate? "Just the cost of doing business" right? So really what you want is to artificially strap some poor joe with insane costs, just so that you can feel you are "making changes to be more efficient".

While I am on a rant, all you twits that proclaim the American SUV to be the root of all that is evil, please explain this.

Everyone seems to think that American trucks and SUV's are so wasteful and that imports are the "golden child". SO take the 5.7L Toyota Tundra and compare to the 6L Chevy.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1177601024.jpg
Yep the American truck is sure the problem....
Compare the Nissan or Honda truck. Same story.

Check out SUV's and compare the V8 Toyota or Honda to an American SUV. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

These vehicles exist for a reason, even the imports are trying to copy them. And wow, they happen to get the same gas mileage too. That reason is NOT just because people want to be wasteful in America as much as you guys want to hate "us". Raising gas prices would not stop people from driving these vehicles. It just means there is less money for something else.

Highest volume selling vehicle in the USA is the Ford F150 pick-up and has been for several years. It's an adopted life-style and at some point change will happen.

I speak to my family in England regularly, where gas (petrol) and diesel are expensive, they know it and all manage to live reasonably good lives. Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and other both high-end and some of the not-that fuel effecient vehicle sales in the UK are doing well. Hummer is now making right-hand-drive vehicles in South Africa for the RHD market.

People know, or at least should, buy vehicles to suit there lifestyles...you pay for what you want.

No one, (other than you), said that only American-made SUVs and trucks are the problem. In fact, that Toyota is probably made in the U.S.A. (Anyone confirm this)? You get the strawman award for today, for posting the weakest SM argument. :)

As to the rest of what you wrote, I agree that there are people who have legitimate need for fuel-guzzling pick-up trucks. The problem is two-fold, IMO; #1 is that even farmers and construction people are conditioned to own MUCH more truck than they actually need 99.99% of the time because of the "who gives a schit" attitude from super-low oil prices. My diesel truck gets ~17-18 mpg on the highway, but it is a lot bigger than I need and I will be changing vehicles soon to something that gets approx. double the mpg. The only way that I could justify owning it now is if I tow 8k lbs. on a very regular basis or carry a ton of load in the back. I never do either.

Problem #2 is evident by the casual cross-country drive through red-state America that I took last week. At least 50% of the vehicles on the road are large SUVs or PU trucks carrying one (1) dip***** and no cargo. I'm sure that a lot of them bought or leased the Suburban after 9/11/01 when GM was giving low finance rates to artificially prop-up the U.S. auto industry and now cannot get rid of them, but the lost irony of people driving huge, unnecessary vehicles with yellow ribbon magnets on them, (made in China), while presumably supporting Bush/Cheney/Halliburton is depressing to say the least.

The bottom line is that if we were not such wasteful energy pigs there would be plenty of freed-up supply of natural resources including oil and steel, and we would not have to be so involved with the people in the crazy part of the world. I'm a typical PU truck customer who just likes having a truck for the occasional usefulness and to haul around a MC or big-screen TV or help out a friend, a Tacoma-sized truck w/ a small Cummins-type 6 cyl. TDI would suit me perfectly along with about 98% of PU customers and get 30 mpg highway. They do not build this because of cheap oil, in the past anyways. :cool:

Do something about it or shut up. Quit pointing fingers and blaming others. If you don't like it do something about it, if you do nothing about it learn to like it.

As tobster pointed out there are situations where this is far from ideal, that is inevitable. I was just hypothesizing that IF gas prices were increased and IF diesel could be made more economical for the commercial sector I would guess that the majority of people would be able to make changes. There would be nothing to stop tobster's farmer from running a diesel truck for example.
Also as others have noted I am not getting at American trucks and SUV's, they are all generally excessive. Of all the trucks I see on the road I would guess that 90% of them have empty beds and one person in them. That's probably because that is the guys everyday vehicle. Sure, there are instances where that truck is utilized as a truck - maybe the guy takes his boat to the lake 10 weekends a year - but do you think that if fuel prices remain high it might work out more economical to buy a small car and maybe renting a truck for the few occasions a year he needs it?

Oops - I guess speeder beat me to the post. I keep getting interrupted with work!

Blaming Cheney or Bush for high gas prices is the height of stupidity. It's like blaming Democrats for the high cost of a good Chardonnay or organic food. But I guess some people are just plain morons.

I would LOVE to the gas tax increased. But I would insist that the $ derived be used exclusively for transportation- improved driver training, improved roads and highways, public transportation etc.

I believe the only thing that will force Americans into smaller more efficient cars is a higher gas tax. It has in Europe and it has in Australia, Japan and other countries. Toyota isn't selling many big SUVs at home or in Europe.

Oh and I guess Bush is responsible for the almost $10 per gallon I recently paid in Austria too. For those who don't know Halliburton bought Austria. I saw Cheney there in a Nazi uniform. With his shotgun. Shooting little children and puppies.

BTW do you know which Vice-President gives almost 80% of his income to charity? For causes like helping inner city families and ensuring their children get a better education?

Strawman eh? That is all that we ever hear on this forum when the word SUV comes up. Do I need to quote some for you?

You base your "bashing" of people on one glimps of them as you drive by? How do you know they are not on their way back from taking 10 kids to soccer? That they have a horse trailer they just dropped off? And I put up strawmen...

Ding, ding, ding. My "strawman" is proved right by the end of your post.

You take a much more reasonable, civil approach so I will do the same.

What people are not comprehending is that UNLIKE the majority of us on this board, these people are driving that big truck because they need it and CAN NOT afford to have a second "economy" car as well. They can only buy one vehicle! I was in this position myself and I would sell everything else beside my truck if it came back down to it. The versatility and usefulness just can't be matched outside the city. Renting is not an option...

If everyone doesn't mind paying much more for everyday products, then by all means jack up the price of gasoline to 10.00/gallon---then wait and see how much more a gallon of milk, sheet of plywood, or pretty much any consumer product costs. The frieght and mfg. costs from the increased prices--even the cost to build the mfg. facilities will ALL increase--and that increase will be passed through to the consumer.

(They do make the 'Yota trucks/SUVs in indiana--we helped build the plant)

Funny how Europe gets by. Their food prices are a bit higher in some countries but generally comparable to ours.

I do own a gas chugging SUV BTW. It tows the P-car to the track. Where I use even more gas.

Thanks tobster, I'll take that as a compliment. :)

I see your point, but here is an example. Assume my ex-wife wants a seven seater SUV. Her basis for this is that her family visit twice a year and it's nice to be able to all go out together in one car. The rest of the year she drives herself and two boys around. Figure on an average of 12k mile per year at 16mpg for the SUV. That’s 750 gallons a year and at $3 a gallon we’re looking at $2250.
Now lets assume that instead of the SUV she buys a small car. 12k miles a year at 32mpg works out at only 375 gallons a year and at $3 a gallon comes to $1125. If she can’t rent a car twice a year for the remaining $1125 then I’m a chimpanzee.
I’m not even figuring in purchase price, insurance, vehicle tax etc, so the real savings will probably be even greater.

Funny how Europe could fit inside a few of our western states. What works there does not necessarily work here. Population density and distances are very different. But Europe... is a bad argument IMO.

...and you could fit a couple of their cars inside some of ours.

OK let's try Australia- does that work? They pay huge taxes on foreign vehicle purchases as well as high gas taxes.

But please note I don't disagree that the costs of transportation increases will have some effect on all commodities which are shipped by truck- they have to. I just don't think it will be near as draconian as some might believe.

By renting not being an option, I don't mean only financially. I don't even know where I could rent a car within 30 miles from where I grew up. Also you don't "work" a rented truck like you do your own. Availability issues, ect.

In your case, would your wife never take the boys to activities with their friends saving other parent having to drive as well? You don't have a dog that goes with you camping or whatever? Try fitting 4 people, 1 dog, and all your gear for 3days in a car. Rent again? How many times until it is not monetarily practical? How about if you have 4 boys like my sister-in-law?

I am all for economical transportation, as long as it is practical. I am fortunate that I can afford a daily driver that gets 18 city / 30 highway as well as my truck. But like I said, if it came down to only affording one....