Running black pipe between two T fittings...???
 

I'm running an extra leg off my existing natural gas line for a grill. While apart I decided to replace an older T fitting because a reduction bushing was used and that is not within code (I probably should have left it alone).

Here's where I need advice. After replacing the T with a properly sized piece I need to replace the "bridge" between the two lines. Unfortunately running pipe requires a consecutive assembly. So, how can I "splice" this piece in and maintain a good seal?
Is there a shutoff valve with one reversed thread so when I tighten it it pulls each side in for a good connection?

Below is a test fitting. The older pieces will be replaced with new. Also, while it looks cock-eyed in the pic the assembly is actually straight. (Yes, that is gas rated tape)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179328539.jpg

This would typically be done with a union fitting I believe. Depending on your natural gas code it could also be done in flared copper, which would easier.

But if you don't know how to do this, why are you doing your own natural gas lines? I suspect what you are doing is not allowed by code. i.e. you must be a licensed gas fitter and do a vacuum and pressure test.

I've done the line in my home before and never encountered any problems. While I don't believe I need to have a licensed plumber perform the work you are right on in needing to be tested.

I thought a union would be used but I'm not sure if it's within code.

I'll give a plumber friend a call.

Rick,

We use unions on high pressure gas lines less than 2 inch nominal diameter. While compression fittings and stainless steel tubing is easier to work with for low flow, low pressure lines, the pipe is fine.

The tape works fines, we use it regularly on the pipeline. Pipe dope works great too, and I would prefer that to tape when working with pipe (versus smaller NPT threads 1/2" or less).

We test connections with "Snoop" which is just soapy water. Make your own. Try to support the pipe best you can.

I know it's easy, and it likely will not leak, but if there is a 'problem' you have no insurance, they simply won't pay a claim if they find out you did some work yourself. To me, it's not worth the risk. But the final decision is yours.

Yes, a union unless it's under the house. Then, a left-right coupling is required. To use one of those, the length has to be able to shorten as you tighten the L-R, usually a length = to the pipe diameter.

Souk,

The pipe I've run before was tested with soapy water and I've never had problems. Not to say that a pro is not best equipped to do the job...I don't dispute that.

Aside from using a union and staying within code I'm leary of a "bridge" that involves six connections (with the cutoff valve). I like to keep them down to a minimum.

Thanks guys...While I'm usually up to a challenge I have a plumber coming in a couple hours.

Some plumbers and pipe fitters are about as qualified as any home owner. Just because they have a union card doesn't mean they can do a better job, nor take any stake in the function and operation of the work they left behind. I've had "licensed prefessionals" cause me more time, money and hassle than necessary. That's not to say the whole lot is bad. I've seen some spectacular work by fitters, tubing runs that would pass as modern art in a loft apartment.

I'm not avocating that all home owners should perform their own work, but some of the piping work (such as what Rick has pictured) shouldn't absolutely require "licensed" profession if the how owner knows what he's doing.

I'm probably a beotch to work for....'cuse I'm always kept a close eye on all the tradesmen that come to the house. I've caught more than a few that didn't know half what they should know.

In cases where I know exactly what repair was required, the union shops and suppliers to union shop refused to sell me the part (simple plug and play swap)! They needed a prefessional license. Even when I had a licensed contractor go purchase the part they turned him away. Great progress in a free capitalist state....better if you are a union! Ever wonder how unions can afford multimillion dollar union halls? Licensed and sanctioned thieves as some one mentioned to me earlier this month.

I think, once the plumber leaves, Rick, you'll wonder what all the "professional license" thing was all about.

Tell us what he did.
These seem rather common. Are you sure? Are we talking about a fitting that has larger male pipe thread on the outside and female pipe thread on the inside?

A: Liability Insurance.

Many municipalities require that buried gas pipes be "wrapped" with a (usually) green bituminous tape. Also, a union is acceptable from a pressure standpoint since gas service is very low pressure. Your local gas company will inspect any work and approve of it prior to allowing the service to be resumed. They are fussy that way.

OK, he left about an hour ago. Looked at what I had and what was planned and said "That would've worked".

Anyway, he fitted a union and a T to run to the grill. The one big advantage he has is a box with nipples in what looked to be 1/4" increments. He'd be able to fit up any length very quickly.

He'll be back on Sat to finish plumbing the grill line....using copper.

Also, he did confirm the bushing as being "illegal".
Rick, the reduction bushing is as you describe.

Not in most places I've been. Once the gas line exits the meter and the relief, they really are not involved.

Federal law requires galvanic protection or Stainless piping in high pressure gas lines.

As fas as low pressure gas piping, we are talking what, 30" of water column? You have to do an awfully lousy job to not be able to hold 30" of water. Snoop's main advantage is the UV pigment. The best cheap stuff is to buy kids bubble blowing mixture. Next best cheap is dish soap mixed with water.

Copper cannot be used with Natural gas. Is he licensed?

He is licensed. I've seen copper used in many houses in the area. I specifically asked and he said that's what they use the majority of the time.

In some areas the sulfur content is high enough to damage the copper but I think that's very uncommon. To remedy one can use tin lined copper tubing.

It is around here. My furnace, hot water heater, stove, gas fireplace and pool heater are all copper. Soft copper tube, not soldered water pipe. Flared SAE style termination.

Gas pressure in your house is typically about 3-5 psi.

The line in the top right with the yellow tag is copper and presumably full of natural gas ...


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1179346759.jpg

Our plumber & heating contractors have been using a flexible corrugated pipe lately. I think it is stainless steel with a plastic coating.

I've only seen copper used with propane.

My pool line is yellow plastic, with special ends.

Local distribution companies in the US typically regulate at the residential meter to about 11 inches of water column (1 psig=27.7" w.c.), so the pressure inside the house will be less than 1 psig. All the natural gas equipment I've seen in residential settings are designed for 7-11" w.c.


Copper, brass, aluminum parts are used on the pipeline (although I don't think I have ever seen copper). Very few companies that I know of allow copper, brass or aluminum equipment (incl. pipe, tubing and fittins) or equipment with parts of those metals in their facilities. Heat from a fire will melt a copper or aluminum fitting well before a stainless steel or steel fitting will fail.

Pipeline quality gas should be "sweet" gas and have very low sulfur content. Even with the addition of mercaptan, we don't usually worry about sulfur.

Even propane is odorized with mercaptan, hence the sulfur odor.

As for the yellow plastic line, it is likely low or medium density polyethylene. More and more the poly-pipe is being used by natural gas distribution companies. It's a huge industry now. Nothing wrong with it for low pressure systems.

In some applications we use poly tubing for instrument or analytical gas...at a lot higher pressure than you see in your house.

I have a gas license, and copper pipe is o/k provided it's the proper thickness. Personally I don't like using it.

first you did a fine job. if you really don't trust yourself, use avation gasket sealant-good to 125psi. the box of nipples in 1/4" increments is called a run. a union is the way to complete the job, but your gonna end up short.

PBH - i don't see a single staple on any of that wiring.

Copper is not recommended in the Western US because of the presence of sulfur. It's OK if the gas doesn't have the sulfur, but how can you be sure? Also, the statements about O2 and H2O are correct, both work on the copper. And, the type of solder used is important. However, silver solder and copper should last many years wherever installed.

I know here in Missouri copper is a no no for natural gas. I was told by more then 1 plumber to use a brand of pipe dope by the name of RectorSeal. You can buy it Home Depot!

The staples were pulled out while I installed my downdraft range hood. The wires will be re-stapled before the ceiling tiles are re-installed.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by milt
Copper is not recommended in the Western US because of the presence of sulfur. It's OK if the gas doesn't have the sulfur, but how can you be sure? Also, the statements about O2 and H2O are correct, both work on the copper. And, the type of solder used is important. However, silver solder and copper should last many years wherever installed.

In Ontario you can use copper, however you can't use soldered fittings. The copper comes in a roll. The end fittings are flared.

I would not use copper. The gas you use on the east may be different than ours on the west but you never know what you will have in the future. We use yellow pipe in all our gas distribution installations, I think up to 6 or 8 inch, our pressure in the gas lines is about 45 psi, and house ine pressure is about 12 inches of water column or a 1/3 of a pound. As souk said pipe dope is good for your fittings. Use palmolive soap with some water to test for leaks.

I'm not a big fan of using copper. I don't mind cutting and threading pipe. There is a flexible pipe that is coated with yellow plastic that is good for concealed areas that regular gas pipe would be difficult to feed through, however I can't think of the name of it.

Not true. If you have a current insurance policy and blow up your home because of faulty DIY work, you are covered. If you maliciously/intentionally make that mistake in order to burn down your house to collect insurance $$$, you will not be paid (and then, only if proven).

If a "no DIY" clause was written into homeowner's policies, Home Depot, Lowe's & Maynards would be out of business and plumbers/electricians/contractors would be more expensive than doctors.

Will your insurance company drop you/raise rates afterward? Most likely. But doing un-permitted, unlicensed & shoddy work yourself is not grounds for denial of a claim.

That being said, I've never seen copper used for natural gas in a residential situation, and I've lived on both coasts. And, if you don't know EXACTLY what you're doing, natural gas is deadly in more ways than one...suffocation and explosion.

The job is done. He used copper and did a nice job.

The deck it goes up to is being replaced in the next couple of years. At that point the copper will be replaced with black pipe.