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Running black pipe between two T fittings...???

I'm running an extra leg off my existing natural gas line for a grill. While apart I decided to replace an older T fitting because a reduction bushing was used and that is not within code (I probably should have left it alone).

Here's where I need advice. After replacing the T with a properly sized piece I need to replace the "bridge" between the two lines. Unfortunately running pipe requires a consecutive assembly. So, how can I "splice" this piece in and maintain a good seal?
Is there a shutoff valve with one reversed thread so when I tighten it it pulls each side in for a good connection?

Below is a test fitting. The older pieces will be replaced with new. Also, while it looks cock-eyed in the pic the assembly is actually straight. (Yes, that is gas rated tape)

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Last edited by RickM; 05-16-2007 at 08:20 AM..
Old 05-16-2007, 08:17 AM
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This would typically be done with a union fitting I believe. Depending on your natural gas code it could also be done in flared copper, which would easier.

But if you don't know how to do this, why are you doing your own natural gas lines? I suspect what you are doing is not allowed by code. i.e. you must be a licensed gas fitter and do a vacuum and pressure test.
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Old 05-16-2007, 08:20 AM
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I've done the line in my home before and never encountered any problems. While I don't believe I need to have a licensed plumber perform the work you are right on in needing to be tested.

I thought a union would be used but I'm not sure if it's within code.

I'll give a plumber friend a call.
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Old 05-16-2007, 08:28 AM
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Rick,

We use unions on high pressure gas lines less than 2 inch nominal diameter. While compression fittings and stainless steel tubing is easier to work with for low flow, low pressure lines, the pipe is fine.

The tape works fines, we use it regularly on the pipeline. Pipe dope works great too, and I would prefer that to tape when working with pipe (versus smaller NPT threads 1/2" or less).

We test connections with "Snoop" which is just soapy water. Make your own. Try to support the pipe best you can.
Old 05-16-2007, 08:39 AM
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I know it's easy, and it likely will not leak, but if there is a 'problem' you have no insurance, they simply won't pay a claim if they find out you did some work yourself. To me, it's not worth the risk. But the final decision is yours.
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Old 05-16-2007, 08:42 AM
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Yes, a union unless it's under the house. Then, a left-right coupling is required. To use one of those, the length has to be able to shorten as you tighten the L-R, usually a length = to the pipe diameter.
Old 05-16-2007, 08:44 AM
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Souk,

The pipe I've run before was tested with soapy water and I've never had problems. Not to say that a pro is not best equipped to do the job...I don't dispute that.

Aside from using a union and staying within code I'm leary of a "bridge" that involves six connections (with the cutoff valve). I like to keep them down to a minimum.
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Old 05-16-2007, 08:48 AM
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Thanks guys...While I'm usually up to a challenge I have a plumber coming in a couple hours.
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Old 05-16-2007, 08:56 AM
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Some plumbers and pipe fitters are about as qualified as any home owner. Just because they have a union card doesn't mean they can do a better job, nor take any stake in the function and operation of the work they left behind. I've had "licensed prefessionals" cause me more time, money and hassle than necessary. That's not to say the whole lot is bad. I've seen some spectacular work by fitters, tubing runs that would pass as modern art in a loft apartment.

I'm not avocating that all home owners should perform their own work, but some of the piping work (such as what Rick has pictured) shouldn't absolutely require "licensed" profession if the how owner knows what he's doing.

I'm probably a beotch to work for....'cuse I'm always kept a close eye on all the tradesmen that come to the house. I've caught more than a few that didn't know half what they should know.

In cases where I know exactly what repair was required, the union shops and suppliers to union shop refused to sell me the part (simple plug and play swap)! They needed a prefessional license. Even when I had a licensed contractor go purchase the part they turned him away. Great progress in a free capitalist state....better if you are a union! Ever wonder how unions can afford multimillion dollar union halls? Licensed and sanctioned thieves as some one mentioned to me earlier this month.

I think, once the plumber leaves, Rick, you'll wonder what all the "professional license" thing was all about.
Old 05-16-2007, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RickM
Thanks guys...While I'm usually up to a challenge I have a plumber coming in a couple hours.
Tell us what he did.
Quote:
Originally posted by RickM
fitting because a reduction bushing was used and that is not within code
These seem rather common. Are you sure? Are we talking about a fitting that has larger male pipe thread on the outside and female pipe thread on the inside?
Old 05-16-2007, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Souk

I think, once the plumber leaves, Rick, you'll wonder what all the "professional license" thing was all about.
A: Liability Insurance.
Old 05-16-2007, 10:49 AM
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Many municipalities require that buried gas pipes be "wrapped" with a (usually) green bituminous tape. Also, a union is acceptable from a pressure standpoint since gas service is very low pressure. Your local gas company will inspect any work and approve of it prior to allowing the service to be resumed. They are fussy that way.
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OK, he left about an hour ago. Looked at what I had and what was planned and said "That would've worked".

Anyway, he fitted a union and a T to run to the grill. The one big advantage he has is a box with nipples in what looked to be 1/4" increments. He'd be able to fit up any length very quickly.

He'll be back on Sat to finish plumbing the grill line....using copper.

Also, he did confirm the bushing as being "illegal".
Rick, the reduction bushing is as you describe.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:33 PM
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Not in most places I've been. Once the gas line exits the meter and the relief, they really are not involved.

Federal law requires galvanic protection or Stainless piping in high pressure gas lines.

As fas as low pressure gas piping, we are talking what, 30" of water column? You have to do an awfully lousy job to not be able to hold 30" of water. Snoop's main advantage is the UV pigment. The best cheap stuff is to buy kids bubble blowing mixture. Next best cheap is dish soap mixed with water.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:34 PM
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Copper cannot be used with Natural gas. Is he licensed?
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:36 PM
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He is licensed. I've seen copper used in many houses in the area. I specifically asked and he said that's what they use the majority of the time.

In some areas the sulfur content is high enough to damage the copper but I think that's very uncommon. To remedy one can use tin lined copper tubing.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by red-beard
Copper cannot be used with Natural gas. Is he licensed?
It is around here. My furnace, hot water heater, stove, gas fireplace and pool heater are all copper. Soft copper tube, not soldered water pipe. Flared SAE style termination.

Gas pressure in your house is typically about 3-5 psi.

Last edited by Porsche_monkey; 05-16-2007 at 01:16 PM..
Old 05-16-2007, 01:13 PM
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The line in the top right with the yellow tag is copper and presumably full of natural gas ...


Old 05-16-2007, 01:19 PM
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Our plumber & heating contractors have been using a flexible corrugated pipe lately. I think it is stainless steel with a plastic coating.

I've only seen copper used with propane.

My pool line is yellow plastic, with special ends.
Old 05-16-2007, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PBH
Gas pressure in your house is typically about 3-5 psi.
Local distribution companies in the US typically regulate at the residential meter to about 11 inches of water column (1 psig=27.7" w.c.), so the pressure inside the house will be less than 1 psig. All the natural gas equipment I've seen in residential settings are designed for 7-11" w.c.


Copper, brass, aluminum parts are used on the pipeline (although I don't think I have ever seen copper). Very few companies that I know of allow copper, brass or aluminum equipment (incl. pipe, tubing and fittins) or equipment with parts of those metals in their facilities. Heat from a fire will melt a copper or aluminum fitting well before a stainless steel or steel fitting will fail.

Pipeline quality gas should be "sweet" gas and have very low sulfur content. Even with the addition of mercaptan, we don't usually worry about sulfur.

Last edited by MotoSook; 05-16-2007 at 02:38 PM..
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