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-   -   Does anyone here support amnesty for illegals? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/346916-does-anyone-here-support-amnesty-illegals.html)

Neilk 05-16-2007 01:35 PM

Living in Dallas, I don't really have a problem with amnesty. They are already here, what are you going to do? Deport them? I guess if I lived in California, Arizona or South Texas, I might think otherwise.

Can we at least close the loophole that allows ANY Cuban who reaches US soil from receiving automatic citizenship?


BTW, I got my citizenship legally 2 years ago.

on-ramp 05-16-2007 01:36 PM

Has anyone who has come here with "temporary working Visa" ever gone back after that Visa has expired? how do they keep track of these people and make sure they go back after the TEMPORARY WORKING visa has expired?
:) what a joke !

nostatic 05-16-2007 01:54 PM

1. Insane fines for businesses that employ illegals
2. Eliminate welfare
3. Raise the minimum wage

Porsche-O-Phile 05-16-2007 01:56 PM

Does anyone here support amnesty for illegals?

NO.

End of story.

Jim727 05-16-2007 02:22 PM

NFW!

Get the word to your representatives:

I will not vote for any candidate for any office if that candidate advocates amnesty of any kind for illegal entrants.

I will not vote for any candidate for any office if they will not wholeheartedly advocate relocating illegal entrants to their home country with the requirement that those illegal entrants go to the end of the line to apply for legal entry.

I will not vote for any candidate for any office if they do not wholeheartedly embrace the need for a guest worker program which includes a definite, enforceable, date for guest workers to return to their home countries.


It's gonna happen unless our "representatives" know it will cost them more votes than the illegals will give them.

Take no prisoners!

Porsche-O-Phile 05-16-2007 02:41 PM

I wholeheartedly agree. Legal immigration is fine. Changing the policies to make legal immigration easier is fine. Changing our laws to make things easier for legal immigrants is fine. Embracing illegal immigrants is not.

I view any policy, law, proposal or discussion about illegal immigration that extends any right, privilege or benefit to illegals (other than a boot on the ass) as inappropriate. Any response to this problem other than rounding up and deporting any and all illegal immigrants and taking active steps to prevent the problem in the future, is a failure - plain and simple.

craigster59 05-16-2007 02:45 PM

I whole heartedly support amnesty for illegals. It is the only solution to the problem. Once granted amnesty, they will not be prosecuted for illegal entry, for the time spent illegally in country and will not be forced to payback any monies owed for services they used while in the country illegally. Just as long as they get the f*kc out once their amnesty is granted.

Jim727 05-16-2007 02:52 PM

Just finished calling my senators and representative.
Start dialing, all.

jyl 05-16-2007 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by on-ramp
Has anyone who has come here with "temporary working Visa" ever gone back after that Visa has expired? how do they keep track of these people and make sure they go back after the TEMPORARY WORKING visa has expired?
:) what a joke !

Under the system I described, when the visa expires, that shows up in the system (database) and the migrant is now out of the system. Anyone hiring him/her is committing a crime. The migrant himself, if picked up by police (traffic stop, etc), is going to prison.

on-ramp 05-16-2007 03:13 PM

If Bush actually cared about sealing the border, it would have happened years ago. All he had to do was have a few meetings with his Republican buddies and it would happen. He doesn't care, it doesn't effect his life. He's been too busy conquering Iraq.

Aerkuld 05-16-2007 03:31 PM

NO!
If they're not prepared to go the legal route to come here to work then why should they be granted any special treatment?

I came to work here legally in 1999. I have held a Visa for the entire time I've been here. I've owned a house and paid all my taxes and haven't claimed a cent from the US government for anything. I have been in the Green card process for over three years now and it is still in process. Every year since the six year Visa expired in 2005 I have to get the attorney to file for an extension of stay while the green card is in process. All in all this has been a lot of hassle and a whole lot of expense even if it is my employer that pays for it. But you know what? It's worth it. If they start granting amnesty do you think that all the legal immigrants stuck in 'Green card Limbo' will have any change in their status? Nope, the only ones to benefit will be the ones who cheated, bypassed the system, and are actually guilty of a crime by being here.

This subject really gets me wound up, I can only imagine it's worse when this is your own country.

Of course, I'm many years and more $$$ away from becoming a citizen so I don't get to vote. Therefore I don't get to have a say on the subject of amnesty.

Rick Lee 05-16-2007 03:38 PM

Thank you Aerkuld. You're the kind of immigrant we want.

Aerkuld 05-16-2007 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jyl
Under the system I described, when the visa expires, that shows up in the system (database) and the migrant is now out of the system. Anyone hiring him/her is committing a crime. The migrant himself, if picked up by police (traffic stop, etc), is going to prison.
That's the way it's supposed to work now. I have no doubt (so I have never been tempted to try it) that if my legal status expired my current employer would not employ me. I also firmly believe that if at that point I was picked up by the police for whatever reason that I would be on a plane back to the UK within a few days.
The thing is, my status is known and tracked because I did it legally. Heck, even if I move I have to inform the INS within a few days and tell them my new address. They know when I leave the country and they know when I come back in.
If you're here illegally nobody knows who you are or where you are. It's a distinct advantage to be illegal and I don't see that granting amnesty will stop people coming here illegally.

jyl 05-16-2007 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aerkuld
That's the way it's supposed to work now. I have no doubt (so I have never been tempted to try it) that if my legal status expired my current employer would not employ me. I also firmly believe that if at that point I was picked up by the police for whatever reason that I would be on a plane back to the UK within a few days.
The thing is, my status is known and tracked because I did it legally. Heck, even if I move I have to inform the INS within a few days and tell them my new address. They know when I leave the country and they know when I come back in.
If you're here illegally nobody knows who you are or where you are. It's a distinct advantage to be illegal and I don't see that granting amnesty will stop people coming here illegally.

People won't come here illegally if they can't work. They can't work unless a company hires them. A company won't hire them if there are systems to determine who is illegal and the penalties for hiring an illegal are severe enough. Right now this last part is sorely lacking.

Jim727 05-16-2007 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee
Thank you Aerkuld. You're the kind of immigrant we want.
+1!!

Hugh R 05-16-2007 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NICKG
if the pay 2 years taxes,
Only pay the last two years in taxes? Wow, what a sweet deal, how come I don't get to do that? Who are you kidding on taxes anyway. Since the bottom 1/2 of the country pays NO Federal or State (for the most part) income taxes, they won't have to pay anyway, unless they make a lot more money than I think.

Aerkuld 05-16-2007 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jyl
People won't come here illegally if they can't work. They can't work unless a company hires them. A company won't hire them if there are systems to determine who is illegal and the penalties for hiring an illegal are severe enough. Right now this last part is sorely lacking.
I agree with you. The problem, I would guess, is that is is virtually impossible for the enforcement agencies to audit all the companies in the country. Even when they do the employee will get deported and the employer probably gets fined. Mostof the time I suspect an employer thinks it's worth the gamble. Increasing the harshness of the penalty may help, but what happens when the employer has hired the guy in good faith and it turns out that the paperwork that was presented to the employer was fake? How would the employer know assuming the social security number checks out?
Unless you have a foolproof method of identifying which guy is legal and which guy isn't I don't think people will stop coming here illegally, even with an amnesty.

BTW, I appreciate the compliments. I have always felt completely at home here and have no desire to move back to Britain.
Apparently it's full of Eastern Euporean immigrants who don't speak English thanks to the European Union.

pwd72s 05-16-2007 05:58 PM

Re: Does anyone here support amnesty for illegals?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee
I don't believe I know a single person who thinks this is a good idea, yet it looks like the House and Senate are pretty close to passing an amnesty bill. I doubt Bush would veto it too. It's one thing for the gov't. to be totally out of touch with voters and then suffer for it in the next election. But this is the kind of thing that can't exactly be turned back once it goes into effect.

And how in the world is any gov't. agency gonna be able to process paperwork for 12 million illegals, when they can't handle the paperwork for the few who try to do it legally now? Unreal.

What's happening here? The admission on the part of our politicians that they control nothing when it comes to border security...

Jim727 05-16-2007 06:09 PM

What's happening??? The weasels smell 12 million potential votes, that's what.

Ethics and national security be damned - get those votes! Being fair to those who were respectful enough to enter legally be damned - get those votes! They could give a rats azz about border security. The fact that three of the Ft. Dix attack plotters came across the Mex. border illegally? Who cares - there are votes to harvest.

red-beard 05-16-2007 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by on-ramp
Has anyone who has come here with "temporary working Visa" ever gone back after that Visa has expired? how do they keep track of these people and make sure they go back after the TEMPORARY WORKING visa has expired?
:) what a joke !

Lots of people in my neighborhood are here on H visas. They are management in major international corporations and are doing a rotation in the states. Every one of them will go back. And we are sad to see them go.

Amnesty? No. A proper immigrant worker program? Yes. But there have to be limitations. Babies born to Citizens and Permanent Resident Aliens would be automatic citizens. All others are the same nationality as thier parents.

#1. Lock down the border. Build a fence, put more people on the boarder, high tech sensors, what ever.

#2. Create a method to let the workers in legally that we need.

#3. For legal workers, who learn english, who pay taxes, who do not commit crimes, who are valuble enough to work in the country for some period of time (5 years? Something), have some path to becoming permanent residents.

#4. For those that do not follow the rules, throw the bums out. Commit a crime (not traffic violations, but DUI/DWI and serious misdemeaners, along with any felony, yes) and get thrown out.

In all fairness, it would be easier to invade Mexico and annex it. Then all we have to block is a couple hundred miles. H***, lets keep rolling until we reach the Canal and take that back over...

Oh, and even with Amnesty, it will be 10+ years before any of those would become citizens.


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