Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Miscellaneous and Off Topic Forums > Off Topic Discussions


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
19 years and 17k posts...
 
azasadny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Dearborn, MI (Southeast Michigan)
Posts: 17,444
Garage
Jury duty "requirement"?

Pardon my ignorance, but are we REQUIRED to serve on a jury? Where is the law that makes jury duty mandatory?

BARNSTABLE, Massachusetts (AP) -- A Cape Cod man who claimed he was homophobic, racist and a habitual liar to avoid jury duty earned an angry rebuke from a judge on Monday, who referred the case to prosecutors for possible charges.

Daniel Ellis' excuses to try to get out of jury duty didn't sit well with the judge.

"In 32 years of service in courtrooms, as a prosecutor, as a defense attorney and now as a judge, I have quite frankly never confronted such a brazen situation of an individual attempting to avoid juror service," Barnstable Superior Court Judge Gary Nickerson told Daniel Ellis, according to a preliminary court transcript of the exchange.

Ellis, of Falmouth, had been called to court with about 60 other potential jurors for possible service on a 23-member grand jury.

On a questionnaire that all potential jurors fill out, Ellis wrote that he didn't like homosexuals and blacks. He then echoed those sentiments in an interview with Nickerson.

"You say on your form that you're not a fan of homosexuals," Nickerson said.

"That I'm a racist," Ellis interrupted.

"I'm frequently found to be a liar, too. I can't really help it," Ellis added.

"I'm sorry?" Nickerson said.

"I said I'm frequently found to be a liar," Ellis replied.

"So, are you lying to me now?" Nickerson asked.

"Well, I don't know. I might be," was the response.

Ellis then admitted he really didn't want to serve on a jury.

"I have the distinct impression that you're intentionally trying to avoid jury service," Nickerson said.

"That's true," Ellis answered.

Nickerson ordered Ellis taken into custody. He was released later Monday morning.

Ellis could face perjury and other charges

__________________
Art Zasadny
1974 Porsche 911 Targa "Helga" (Sold, back home in Germany)
Learning the bass guitar
Driving Ford company cars now...
www.ford.com
Old 07-10-2007, 07:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Cars & Coffee Killer
 
legion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State of Failure
Posts: 32,246
I don't think there is anything at the federal level, but there may well be something there at the state or local level.
__________________
Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle...
5 liters of VVT fury now
-Chris

"There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security."
Old 07-10-2007, 07:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered
 
LakeCleElum's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Lake Cle Elum - Eastern WA.
Posts: 8,417
Most jurisdictions have laws that require you to respond to a jury notice. However, if you are not personally served or sign for the notice, they cannot prove you received it. I've never heard of anyone charged with not showing in my area. YMMV.
__________________
Bob S.
73.5 911T
1969 911T Coo' pay (one owner)
1960 Mercedes 190SL
1962 XKE Roadster (sold) - 13 motorcycles
Old 07-10-2007, 07:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered
 
Rick Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Cave Creek, AZ USA
Posts: 44,507
Garage
I had federal jury duty last year and this judge was a severe HARD A$S on anyone who tried to get out of it. The case was a RICO Act on an M-13 gangbanger, which I knew plenty about, working at a news agency and reading the Wash. Post daily. There about 80 potential jurors. First question by the judge was: "Does anyone here personally know anyone in the FBI? If so, please stand." Half the room stood. You get an idea of the jury pool around northern VA. Anyway, one guy there had just dropped his wife off for back surgery that morning and she was going to be in a wheel chair for months. Too bad. He couldn't leave. A few folks whose names were called didn't show up. Judge sent US Marshalls to go find them and told us they were looking at three days in jail and $1000 on contempt. This guy had such a hard on for jurors. He told us all about how he helped write the state law that required everyone, except the governor (despite his objections to that provision) to be eligible for jury duty. I was the last person they dismissed that day. The defendant was guilty as sin, looking at lethal injection and eventually pleaded guilty for the reduced sentence of life without parole at the tender age of 23.
__________________
2022 BMW 530i
2021 MB GLA250
2020 BMW R1250GS
Old 07-10-2007, 08:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered
 
Rick Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Cave Creek, AZ USA
Posts: 44,507
Garage
Oh, and they sent my jury duty notice to my old address a good nine mos. after I had moved and changed my driver's license address, which is how they update voter registrations, which is how they choose jurors. I got the notice about 10 days before I was to appear. And skipping it would have been a very bad decision.
__________________
2022 BMW 530i
2021 MB GLA250
2020 BMW R1250GS
Old 07-10-2007, 08:05 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
B58/732
 
BlueSkyJaunte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Hot as Hell, AZ
Posts: 12,313
It is your civic duty. Do it.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
I don't always talk to vegetarians--but when I do, it's with a mouthful of bacon.
Old 07-10-2007, 09:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Moderator
 
304065's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,569
Yes, you are required, unless you qualify for one of the exemptions, which are few in number and are related to genuine hardship.

The right of Trial by Jury is articulated in Article III of the Constitution. In order to have a Jury you must have jurors, which is left up to the states. In Michigan, it's the Judicature Act of 1961, I believe. http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(dhdk24j13ztmn155fuozls55))/mileg.aspx?page=MCLIndex&objectname=mcl-236-1961-13

The success of our legal system depends on intelligent people serving on juries as the finder of fact. When smart people don't participate it leads to bad outcomes.
__________________
'66 911 #304065 Irischgruen
‘96 993 Carrera 2 Polarsilber
'81 R65
Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13)
Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02)
Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04)
Ex-'89 944 Turbo S (Sold 8/21/20)
Old 07-10-2007, 09:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Non Compos Mentis
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Off the grid- Almost
Posts: 10,598
I served once, and had fun. A simple one-day trial.

As we were led back to deliberate, I got myself elected jury foreman in about 90 seconds. Within twenty minutes or so, everybody agreed with me.

The most fun, however, was after we were dismissed, and the defense attorney wanted to ask some questions of us. I said I'd be happy to. He came across a bit slimy, and I wanted to give him an earful.

After everybody else had left, there was no one but me and the two attorneys. I critiqued both of their arguments, point by point. Pretty much raked them both over the coals, and they both took notes! They appreciated the constructive criticism.

Hopefully they are better attorneys today becuas of it.
Old 07-10-2007, 09:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Super Moderator
 
cstreit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Naperville, IL USA
Posts: 14,969
Garage
Quote:
Originally posted by BlueSkyJaunte
It is your civic duty. Do it.
+1 believe me, if I were on a jury trial, I'd prefer people that wanted to be there... ...but it IS your duty as a citizen of this country.

I did get out of jury duty once. A lawyer was suing another lawyer because he slipped on the sidewalk outside the dudes house and hurt (not broke, not sprained, but hurt) his arm. I told the judge "Honestly unless they intend to show malicious intent I'd be really hard pressed to be objective in this situation."
__________________
Chris
----------------------------------------------

1996 993 RS Replica
2023 KTM 890 Adventure R
1971 Norton 750 Commando
Alcon Brake Kits

Last edited by cstreit; 07-10-2007 at 09:38 AM..
Old 07-10-2007, 09:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Cars & Coffee Killer
 
legion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State of Failure
Posts: 32,246
Quote:
Originally posted by john_cramer
The success of our legal system depends on intelligent people serving on juries as the finder of fact. When smart people don't participate it leads to bad outcomes.
Yep, too often juries are made up of people too dumb to think up a good excuse for getting out of it. You wonder where multi-million dollar damages for spilled coffee and O.J. Simpson verdicts come from?
__________________
Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle...
5 liters of VVT fury now
-Chris

"There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security."
Old 07-10-2007, 09:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
?
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 30,497
Quote:
Originally posted by john_cramer
...The success of our legal system depends on intelligent people serving on juries as the finder of fact....
Our legal system is doomed
Old 07-10-2007, 09:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Detached Member
 
Hugh R's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: southern California
Posts: 26,964
I remember when OJ was on trial (the first one) and a Los Angeles radio talk show host made and announcement that OJ would be freed because he was reading the USA Today and a survey showed that 1 in 10 adults in America believes Elvis is still alive. 1 in 10... you only need one juror in 12 on a criminal case to get a hung jury. My favorite quote from one of the OJ jurors afterwards was something along the line of "hey, once you throw out the blood and DNA stuff what else have you got?"
__________________
Hugh
Old 07-10-2007, 10:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Dog-faced pony soldier
 
Porsche-O-Phile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: A Rock Surrounded by a Whole lot of Water
Posts: 34,187
Garage
It's a cross-section of the public-at-large. Yes, the public really is that stupid.

George Carlin put it best (one of my favorite quotes): "Consider how stupid the average person is, then just think - half of them are even stupider than THAT!!!"

Scary.
__________________
A car, a 911, a motorbike and a few surfboards

Black Cars Matter
Old 07-10-2007, 10:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered
 
Moses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: I'm out there.
Posts: 13,084
Quote:
Originally posted by john_cramer
The success of our legal system depends on intelligent people serving on juries as the finder of fact. When smart people don't participate it leads to bad outcomes.
Why do judges have the right to issue "directed verdicts"?
Why are judges allowed to "set aside" a juries verdict?

Seems like the whole process is a charade. The jurys verdict is only valid, it seems, if the judge concurs.
__________________
My work here is nearly finished.

Last edited by Moses; 07-10-2007 at 10:35 AM..
Old 07-10-2007, 10:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered
 
Rick Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Cave Creek, AZ USA
Posts: 44,507
Garage
Yes Moses, but you know a judge setting aside a verdict makes for a very nice appeal. And I'm only aware of it happening in cases where there was clear jury tampering or jury nullification, in which cases I think it's just fine.
__________________
2022 BMW 530i
2021 MB GLA250
2020 BMW R1250GS
Old 07-10-2007, 10:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
?
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 30,497
I don't know where I read/heard it, but I sort of like the idea of "professional jurors" or something along those lines. The concept that a cross section of the general population (i.e. "one's peers") will have the intelligence, education and experience, etc. to sort through the bs, and provide justice is fundamentally flawed imo and needs to be readdressed. It's a HUGE responsibility (done correctly), and frankly, many in the general population are simply not up to the task.
Old 07-10-2007, 10:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered
 
Moses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: I'm out there.
Posts: 13,084
Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Lee
I'm only aware of it happening in cases where there was clear jury tampering or jury nullification, in which cases I think it's just fine.
I believe "jury nullification" is an essential component of our trial system. It is our final protection against government abuse of power.

Before the civil war, it was illegal to harbor runaway slaves in the border states. Participants in the underground railroad were frequently arrested, tried, and found NOT GUILTY despite obvious evidence to the contrary.

Jurys should not only judge the factual elements of a case, but whether the law was appropriately applied and whether or not the law itself is reasonable.
__________________
My work here is nearly finished.
Old 07-10-2007, 10:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 3,092
Garage
I was on a medical malpractice case. We eventually found the doctor innocent. One of the jurors said she agreed the doctor was not negligent but wanted to award the plaintiff money anyway.

I would only want a jury trial if I was guilty.
__________________
Randy
'87 911 Targa
'17 Macan GTS
Old 07-10-2007, 10:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered
 
Moses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: I'm out there.
Posts: 13,084
Remember Ellie Nessler, the woman who shot and killed the man who molested her son? She was sent to prison by a sympathetic jury after the judge specifically admonished them NOT to render a not guilty verdict. In my opinion the judge should have been charged with obstruction of justice and the jury should have been able to free Ellie Nessler if they thought the law had been applied wrongly.
__________________
My work here is nearly finished.
Old 07-10-2007, 10:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Bill is Dead.
 
cashflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Alaska.
Posts: 9,633
Moses, I agree with jury nullification but it rarely happens. You have situations like the Nessler case, plus you have uninformed juries, and I have even read stories of action groups being told that they could not inform the jury of their option for nullification.

Why? Because "the system" is run by "the man".

Give power to the people?? WTF?

__________________
-.-. .- ... .... ..-. .-.. -.-- . .-.
The souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and no torment will ever touch them.
Old 07-10-2007, 10:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply


 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:02 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.