"We Will Never forget!"...Yeah, right!

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by nota
the day the germans attacked russia they lost the war
sure it took awhile to slow and stop their panzers
but the lack of basic supplys fuel and manpower
made the result a forgone conclusion only the time and place was in dought of the turn to retreat
if the germans could have changed their plans and means
they might have got lucky but thats a very very slim chance
and as nazi nuts they couldNOT change in the needed ways
to use the people they had under their control as anything but slave labor and the jap's racist ideas did them in too

that said midway and stalingrad were the points of turn
in a unwinable war but neathor was the reason for the lost
just the markers

I think the election of Teddy Roosevelt was the major factor in the German's loosing the war...

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by Tervuren
I think the election of Teddy Roosevelt was the major factor in the German's loosing the war...

Wow. THat was even before the first World War.

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
Wow. THat was even before the first World War.

You can point to any event, and say it was key to things happening the way they did. Teddy was the one that got the US more involved internationally, despite prior presidents trying to hold a low profile internationally. The Japanese would not of attacked us if they did not deem us a threat to their imperialism.

I'd also say Pearl Harbor, from a purely American perspective, was the key to our eventual victory. It gave a massive propaganda tool to the government, giving them a clear "cause" to project to the people. If the Japanese had not perceived us as an immediate threat, they would of attacked else ware, once Europe and Asia belonged to Asia, then they'd of come our way.

[slakjaw]

Originally posted by rcecale
You didn't know the answer, did you?

Randy

Dont be a punk,
I know the answer. I do not know why you care about some british people not knowing. I hope someone from England quizzes your a$$.

This is stupid who cares about people from England.

[VINMAN]

Originally posted by slakjaw
Dont be a punk,
I know the answer. I do not know why you care about some british people not knowing. I hope someone from England quizzes your a$$.

This is stupid who cares about people from England.

Sounded an awful lot like native New Yorkers to me??

BTW, thats Times Square, In New York, USA.

[pmajka]

To answer the last one, its Monday.

Originally posted by 84porsche
Well, that is definitely sad. Randy, I couldn't agree more. Sometimes I think we as a society are moving backwards. But what do people remember? American history should be better taught and Americans should know their country's history. Here is my little history quiz, can anybody answer these?

What dates did the following happen?


A little harder one...

What day was the Constitution signed?

[slakjaw]

Originally posted by VINMAN
Sounded an awful lot like native New Yorkers to me??

BTW, thats Times Square, In New York, USA.

Are you sure? The one woman said "I was in New York when it happened"

[slakjaw]

[widgeon13]

She was probably in Buffalo. Everyone who was anywhere near NYC on 9/11 claim they were in the city.

[VINMAN]

Originally posted by slakjaw
Are you sure? The one woman said "I was in New York when it happened"

You can roll your eyes all you want. Mid-westerner. I think after 42 yrs of living and working in NYC, I think I could recognize it....

[rcecale]

Originally posted by slakjaw
Dont be a punk,
I know the answer. I do not know why you care about some british people not knowing. I hope someone from England quizzes your a$$.

This is stupid who cares about people from England.

WOW! Not only did you NOT know the answer, you don't even recognize Americans speaking! I mean, sure, the interviewer was one of those "durn furners" but the people replying were definitely ALL Americans. Sheesh!

Gee, punkin, now who's the punk?

Randy

[stuartj]

The stupid televison show is called The Chaser. That was filmed in NYC. It was made by stupid Australians, I cannot say if there were stupid British involved.

[rcecale]

Stuart, read my signature line...all this time, I thought slakjaw was a dude!

Randy

[slakjaw]

Originally posted by rcecale
WOW! Not only did you NOT know the answer, you don't even recognize Americans speaking! I mean, sure, the interviewer was one of those "durn furners" but the people replying were definitely ALL Americans. Sheesh!

Gee, punkin, now who's the punk?

Randy

Your thread is gay.

homo.

Yes I do know the answer, no I dont care that some pole smoke's from NYC did not know the answer. What this all boils down to is a gay thread.

[rcecale]

Originally posted by slakjaw
Your thread is gay.

homo.

Yes I do know the answer, no I dont care that some pole smoke's from NYC did not know the answer. What this all boils down to is a gay thread.

And yet, you keep coming back... You're such a b!tch when you're mad, sweetheart!

Randy

[Danimal16]

Originally posted by nota
the day the germans attacked russia they lost the war
sure it took awhile to slow and stop their panzers
but the lack of basic supplys fuel and manpower
made the result a forgone conclusion only the time and place was in dought of the turn to retreat
if the germans could have changed their plans and means
they might have got lucky but thats a very very slim chance
and as nazi nuts they couldNOT change in the needed ways
to use the people they had under their control as anything but slave labor and the jap's racist ideas did them in too

that said midway and stalingrad were the points of turn
in a unwinable war but neathor was the reason for the lost
just the markers

Actually, it was Hitlers insistence on putting down the uprising in Yugoslavia. The original plans for the Russian Campaign were delayed by two weeks due to the diversion against Tito's troops. German's became bogged down in a Russian Winter, with some saying that had the winter not set in for another 2 weeks, the results could have been different.

As for the Pacific, thinks started to turn at Coral Sea and the Japanese had the tide turned on them at Midway with the loss of four carriers. Another significant loss was that of many Japanese pilots. Remember, unlike the US, experienced pilots remained in theater. The pilot loses at Midway and Coral Sea were significant. I strongly disagree that the outcome was decided only up to the battle of Leyte Gulf. Granted, had Taffy 2 and 3 not succeeded, the outcome of the war could have been in question, but it would have delayed the inevitable, just as the Battle of the Bulge set back allied efforts in Europe.

[MRM]

The point is that the war was not over before Leyte Gulf. After the battle it was. The tide had long turned against the Japanese but their defeat wasn't irrevokable until after Leyte Gulf. As for Europe, the Battle of the Bulge is only considered a delay of the inevitable in retrospect. Like D Day, if a few things had fallen the other way Europe could have been bogged down in another land war that lasted long enough that the Allies agreed to partition Europe.

[Danimal16]

Originally posted by MRM
The point is that the war was not over before Leyte Gulf. After the battle it was. The tide had long turned against the Japanese but their defeat wasn't irrevokable until after Leyte Gulf. As for Europe, the Battle of the Bulge is only considered a delay of the inevitable in retrospect. Like D Day, if a few things had fallen the other way Europe could have been bogged down in another land war that lasted long enough that the Allies agreed to partition Europe.

With the Japanese Navy being nearly devoid of operational aircraft prior to Leyte and other events, it was not the battle for the taking of the Philippines that determined Japan's fate. As a matter of fact, the taking of the PI was of no military significance when it came to the destruction of the Japan. Most historians of the Pacific Island Hoping campaign commonly accepted this. This was where King was out politicked by Macarthur.

The defeat of the Japanese at Guadalcanal and their withdrawal in February 1943 marked a general trend of continued defeats that lead to the general destruction of the Japanese Naval Aviation in the Marianas in June 1944. The fall of Guam and Tinian in July 1944 pretty much sealed the fate of the Japanese Mainland and the Islands that were deemed to be Japanese soil including but not limited to the Ogasawara Islands, i.e. Iwo Jima and the Rayukus, Okinawa.

The invasion at Leyte Gulf did not occur until October 1944. What is so curious about the major emphasis after the Leyte operation and the continued operations in the PI is that no major assault of the Japanese mainland occurred as a result of the PI operations. The PI became a political statement by Macarthur. The earlier threat to Australia launched from the PI by the Japanese was stopped by the Australians in New Guinea and the Americans at the Coral Sea and the Solomon Islands.

The destruction of the Japanese from Tinian, Guam and Iwo Jima was unaffected by the PI operations.

[Danimal16]

Originally posted by MRM
The point is that the war was not over before Leyte Gulf. After the battle it was. The tide had long turned against the Japanese but their defeat wasn't irrevokable until after Leyte Gulf. As for Europe, the Battle of the Bulge is only considered a delay of the inevitable in retrospect. Like D Day, if a few things had fallen the other way Europe could have been bogged down in another land war that lasted long enough that the Allies agreed to partition Europe.

With the Japanese Navy being nearly devoid of operational aircraft prior to Leyte and other events, it was not the battle for the taking of the Philippines that determined Japan's fate. As a matter of fact, the taking of the PI was of no military significance when it came to the destruction of the Japan. Most historians of the Pacific Island Hoping campaign commonly accepted this. This was where King was out politicked by Macarthur.

The defeat of the Japanese at Guadalcanal and their withdrawal in February 1943 marked a general trend of continued defeats that lead to the general destruction of the Japanese Naval Aviation in the Marianas in June 1944. The fall of Guam and Tinian in July 1944 pretty much sealed the fate of the Japanese Mainland and the Islands that were deemed to be Japanese soil including but not limited to the Ogasawara Islands, i.e. Iwo Jima and the Rayukus, Okinawa.

The invasion at Leyte Gulf did not occur until October 1944. What is so curious about the major emphasis after the Leyte operation and the continued operations in the PI is that no major assault of the Japanese mainland occurred as a result of the PI operations. The PI became a political statement by Macarthur. The earlier threat to Australia launched from the PI by the Japanese was stopped by the Australians in New Guinea and the Americans at the Coral Sea and the Solomon Islands.

The destruction of the Japanese from Tinian, Guam and Iwo Jima was unaffected by the PI operations.

[MRM]

Being able to carry on a debate like this demonstrates much more understanding of history than rote memorization of facts. I think the unconditional surrender of the Japanese Empire was not a forgone conclusion until after Leyte Gulf. Reasonable, educated minds can differ. Only educated minds can grasp the issue and debate it intelligently.