Does anyone here support amnesty for illegals?

[Rick Lee]

I don't believe I know a single person who thinks this is a good idea, yet it looks like the House and Senate are pretty close to passing an amnesty bill. I doubt Bush would veto it too. It's one thing for the gov't. to be totally out of touch with voters and then suffer for it in the next election. But this is the kind of thing that can't exactly be turned back once it goes into effect.

And how in the world is any gov't. agency gonna be able to process paperwork for 12 million illegals, when they can't handle the paperwork for the few who try to do it legally now? Unreal.

[Joeaksa]

Not any that I know of here in the Border States.... unless you are asking the illegals and their families that is.

My family did it legally and when I lived in a foreign country a few years back I did it legally. Make them do the same thing....

[The Gaijin]

If I was one of 30,000,000 Americans with really bad credit, back taxes owed or a criminal record, I would be at the front of the line looking for a fresh start.

[speeder]

It's incomprehensible and incredibly depressing. We are witnessing the complete disintigration of the rule of law in favor of a political special interest. I'm sure glad that I'll be dead in a couple more decades.

[Rick Lee]

An hour before I started this thread I had a meeting on the Hill. I had to walk past the Rep. Nat. Comm. HQ, where I used to work and there was a protest going on out front. It was a bunch of Hispanics demanding an amnesty bill!!!! Even crazier, there was a group of white folks standing across the street waiting for their chance to protest. They were all wearing shirts with something like "Legalize the Irish Immigrants" on them. Unreal.

[Tervuren]

Well, my biggest problem is with illegal immigrants. IF they really can pass a citizen test, I'd be ok with it. I'm not for just handing it to anyone though. If they want to be an American, fine. We didn't use to have such immigration rules anyway. They are a requirement now.

[Tobra]

No, but I am not running for office

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by Tervuren
Well, my biggest problem is with illegal immigrants. IF they really can pass a citizen test, I'd be ok with it. I'm not for just handing it to anyone though. If they want to be an American, fine. We didn't use to have such immigration rules anyway. They are a requirement now.

I don't believe any amnesty proposal grants automatic citizenship. It just legalizes the illegals, who, after 3-5 yrs., can then apply for citizenship. Citizenship test is actually becoming more difficult soon too.

[sammyg2]

Sure, all those who are illegal or 1st or 2nd generation illegal support amnesty.
I sure as heck don't.

BTW there is a lawsuit filed on behalf of the illegal supporters that got roughed up in Macarthur park in LA.
Seems the police were issueing orders, get this,..... in ENGLISH!
Total violation of the illegal's rights so the illegals are sueing. F them and their lawyers.
All police orders should be issued in English, spanish, vietnamese, etc. from now on
yeah right.

No, I don't support any amnesty. I support a more severe punishment for those who have broken the law for so long.

[NICKG]

if the pay 2 years taxes, and be capable of speaking english...no problem.
My family on my fathers side had to be able to speak english, or the would not let them in. I PAY taxes EVERY YEAR...so should they. They can make that choice or be deported, period.

[widgeon13]

Answer to the original question NFW !!!

[The Gaijin]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
I don't believe any amnesty proposal grants automatic citizenship. It just legalizes the illegals, who, after 3-5 yrs., can then apply for citizenship. Citizenship test is actually becoming more difficult soon too.

Really, how difficult can it be?

You think 12,000,000 is a lot of people.? Wait till the citizenship comes along. Then you can sponsor children (including adult children), spouses & parents(who nobody can force you to support). And who is going to pay the school taxes and social security for those folks? The whole thing is a complete mess. It does not, will not and cannot support itself economically. A long term disaster for the US.

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by The Gaijin
Really, how difficult can it be?

I think I posted it here about a year ago and I'd bet a good number of Americans born here could not pass it.

[The Gaijin]

If you think that any test is going to get in the way of millions and millons of potential new citizens with their votes up for grab - you have got to be kidding yourself. This is a big give away - and it is just starting.

[dd74]

As others have suggested here, it's all just a matter of political appeasement. The real question is to which political spectrum will these illegals who are granted amnesty gravitate?

Almost every person of Latin descent I know who went on to become U.S. citizens, have also become staunch Republicans.

[on-ramp]

that's it. I'm moving to Europe... have a good time in Amexica , folks. this land is a playground for the rich, and the rest are just living on borrowed times..

the same gov't that failed to secure the border and allow 30 million mexicans into our country is the same gov't that will now give them amnesty. Welcome to the new America, for English press 1. Whites will be the minority in about another decade. Joe, don't forget to brush up on your Spanish, buddy.. LOL

[Rick Lee]

It's a LOT worse in Europe AND most of the immigrants there are Muslims with no chance or desire to be assimilated.

[Seahawk]

Close the borders first, second and third. We can figure out the rest after that.

[GO DAWG GO]

This issue makes me insane....Makes me want to smoke...Congress KMA!

This is where democracy has failed... whores for a vote...Maybe we dont need to obey the law anymore.they dont..They want anarchy theyll get it...Those politicians dont have to live with the 3rd worlders. This sickens me...Cant wait before the election when they call whining about how crappy the Republicans are doing...and "can we expect your vote"....then it will be my turn..I will articulately say F-CK YOU. I'm no longer a Republican...You whores dont represent me you unprincipled derelics. Id rather vote for anybody but the two party system of whores. Besides.. some decendant of Poncho Villa will be running in 2012 and the country will be 80% illegal with voting rights and rights to my paycheck and they will win... Time to move......

[jyl]

I do, but not sure if the pending law matches what I would like to se.

What I want:

1. Severe penalties for employers who hire aliens who are outside of the migrant worker visa system (that I'll describe below). Meaning criminal penalties. Plant managers, company executives go to jail. In addition to large monetary fines, exclusion from future govt work, etc.

2. Aliens currently in the country who want to get on path to citizenship have to sign up for a special visa. Visa gives them ability to work in US. Visa is not issued (and if issued is revoked) if they commit a crime, are deemed security risk, fail to provide current address and other info to INS every so many months, fail to pay taxes, work under table, seek certain govt benefits, etc. Basically they have to be productive workers and squeaky-clean.

4. Quota for new aliens to seek this visa. Determined based on our economic need for that sort of labor, determined by govt (e.g. Labor Dept).

5. After 5 or 10 years, visa holder can apply for green card. Requires documented history of employment, tax-paying, no criminality, etc. Also requires proven English language skills, civics education. After that, the usual track to US citizenship, or not, applies.

6. Alien who enters US outside of this visa system, or who leaves the system once here (visa revoked), is imprisoned then deported. Imprisonment is long enough (1 yr? 2 yrs?) to make it uneconomic for the person to do the enter-work-get deported-enter again thing.

7. Border fence. I think it is both feasible and politically/symbolically necessary.

8. Secure alien ID and visa system. Obviously govt will have to have good systems - biometrics, database, etc - to make this work.

9. Govt costs for this program - visa/ID systems, enforcement, prison, fence, all other costs associated with migrant alien program - to be self-funding, by addtional taxes surcharged on the aliens' income. So if ordinary taxpayer pays, say, 15% effective income tax rate, a migrant alien under this program might end up paying, say, 25% effective rate - anyway, what ever it takes so that other taxpayers don't pay.

Edit: I am not sure how the funding numbers work. Seems to me, if you have 12MM migrant aliens earning $10K-$20K/yr, that's a substantial income base to tax. But maybe 25% effective tax isn't enough, maybe it will have to be higher. One possible effect is that, as the jobs held by migrant aliens are forced to bear their actual cost via this increased taxation, the wages required by those workers increases and/or employers become financially motivated to hire more US citizens. That would be fine. Let different labor sources bear their true cost, and then let the market choose between those different labor sources.