Socialism in Action

[legion]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070614/od_nm/germany_banker_dc

A German banker who stole money from rich clients to help poor ones has been sentenced to two years and 10 months in prison, a court said Thursday. The 45-year-old, dubbed by German media as a modern day Robin Hood, diverted 2.1 million euros ($2.79 million) to clients he felt were needy while holding a senior position at a savings bank in the southern region of Tauberfranken.

Why is it illegal to do what governments all over the world do all the time?

[Hugh R]

Big diff! He did it secretly, the gubmit does it with the threat of jail time! Maybe he should have waved a gun around, then it would have been the same.

[legion]

Right. Only the government is allowed to rob the rich to give to the poor. Just like only the government is allowed to protect individuals.

[Superman]

That's in sharp contrast to capitalism which, as we know, takes from the poor to give to the rich.

[legion]

No, we don't all know that--let alone agree with it, but you certainly imply that it is a universal truth and therefore not subject to debate or scrutiny. What proof do you have to back up that assertion?

[the]

In capitalism, nobody takes anything from anyone.

To the extent they do, that's not capitalism.

[Dottore]

Socialism isn't all bad you know. And capitalism has it's own problems. Just labels for different economic models.

I don't know why people insist on seeing these as black and white, and getting riled up when one or the other is mentioned.

The most benign states with the highest standard of living have always had elements of both systems.

[Superman]

Yeah, I'd be a bit sensitive about this too, if I were you. The phenomenon of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer in America is a brute fact. Legion is right. Tax regulations seek to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor. And still, we have individuals and even whole families living out of cars and cardboard boxes. A substantial portion of American children are living in households that cannot afford good nutrition for them.

Many of us wish, hesitantly, that you guys could get your wish. If gubmit got out of the way, out of the business of underwriting what capitalism does not provide, then guess what would happen. You guys think poor people would get off their lazy asses and be productive and happy. I don't. I think there would be some real misery for a few years, and then this nation would dump the failed theory that capitalism
lifts all boats." It doesn't. It creates winners and losers. Right now, being a loser is somewhat tolerable. Take away that safety net and you guys would have a new nation on your hands, and a new set of laws. And you'd deserve it for believing what is false and decrying a system that takes care of capitalism's victims.

[Tobra]

Originally posted by Hugh R
Big diff! He did it secretly, the gubmit does it with the threat of jail time! Maybe he should have waved a gun around, then it would have been the same.

Honestly Hugh, they don't wave guns around, they attach your paycheck or put a lien on your house.

They only wave the guns around for a little bit before they send in the dogs if you won't get out of the house after they sell it out from under you for back taxes. They put them away right after the cuffs are on, I have seen "Cops!" plenty of times.

[nota]

Originally posted by legion
Right. Only the government is allowed to rob the rich to give to the poor. Just like only the government is allowed to protect individuals.

NEO-CONNED BS

our goverment gives 10% to poor people
and 90% back to CORP's and rich farmers
of every wellfare dollar

[legion]

Wow...I've had so many words put into my mouth since I last posted I don't know where to begin.

'the' is right. Corporate welfare subverts capitalism as much as individual welfare. Both should be put to a swift end.

Capitalism will not "lift all boats", but neither will socialism. Socialism inevitably turns into a corrupted form of capitalism, with those "in the party" living extremely well, while the masses suffer. It begins with those in power robbing the rich, but once those quickly disappear, they are left to rob those at the bottom. Capitalism simply leaves fewer boats in the mud as individuals are allowed to better themselves through their own efforts--and keep what they have earned.

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by Superman
That's in sharp contrast to capitalism which, as we know, takes from the poor to give to the rich.

[legion]

Yes, more patting each other on the back for unsubstantiated claims...

[widebody911]

"The middle class is a stop-gap. It keeps the hands of the poor off the throats of the rich. Remove it at your peril."

Interesting article from WSJ last week

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2007/06/11/why-the-rich-care-about-inequality/

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Capitalism is a brutal system in its honesty, but I defy anyone to come up with a better system.

If you're talented, have something to offer, invest in yourself, your training and your education, you have little to worry about in a capitalist system.

OTOH if you're a lazy, do-nothing with no ambition, no desire to work, no desire to contribute and/or no marketable skills (other than the ability to do grunt labor), you're in for a tough life - by your own choices.

Capitalism encourages people to be motivated, to push themselves and to be resourceful. I can think of few other systems that are so effective at doing that.

The most appealing thing about capitalism (for me) is that it tends to reward and punish according to what one puts into it. This is directly tied to the notions of "personal accountability" and "making something of onesself".

You can draw your own conclusions about the opinions those who are so quick to bash it might also have about these related notions.

[stevepaa]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
Capitalism is a brutal system in its honesty, but I defy anyone to come up with a better system.

Better for who, the individual or humanity in general?

[legion]

Both.

How does society benefit from maintaining a large number of unmotivated, unproduction people? Under a socialist system, each progressive generation becomes less and less productive, and the numbers of those who produce nothing and only consume grow. Eventually the system breaks when there are too few producers supporting too many non-producers.

How does an individual benefit from having his income reduced to support a large number of unmotivated, unproduction people?

The only people who benefit from a socialist system are the lazy.

[Dottore]

Originally posted by legion
Both.

How does society benefit from maintaining a large number of unmotivated, unproduction people? Under a socialist system, each progressive generation becomes less and less productive, and the numbers of those who produce nothing and only consume grow. Eventually the system breaks when there are too few producers supporting too many non-producers.

How does an individual benefit from having his income reduced to support a large number of unmotivated, unproduction people?

The only people who benefit from a socialist system are the lazy.

It doesn't have to be either - or. Don't you get that? You can have a capitalist system that still attempts to address collective or "social" issues - issues such as health care, education and the environment - issues that concern society collectively - in a "socialist fashion".

Socialism merely recognizes that in relation to certain issues the collective good is more important than the individual good.

[legion]

Then it is no longer capitalism. Socialism is the halfway point between comunism and capitalism.

[cmccuist]

Wherever there is socialism and communism, the only rich people are the ones who are doing the distributing of the wealth.

In capitalism, billions of dollars are collected and millions are distributed (about $1 is ditributed for every $3 collected - nice government programs).

I would wager that no one reading this post would desire to live in anything other than an advanced western civilization fueled by capitalist economics.

Socialsm and communism sucks the life out of its citizens and when they are no longer productive or if they pitch a fit thay are imprisoned and/or executed.

Stop defending this BS.