Alonso and Hamilton

[JSDSKI]

I'll bet there are abour four F1 teams scouring kart races for 10 year olds to sign up for long term development. It'll be like the development Canada does in hockey - from midgets to NHL.

from Autosport - interesting comments from 4 time WDC Prost.

"Four-time champion Prost, who had a spectacular falling-out with teammate Ayrton Senna in 1988 and 1989 when McLaren dominated the sport, reckons the situation could hurt the team. "I think now having two equal cars within the same team is a mistake. In the end it will hurt them because it generates too much tension," Prost told El Pais newspaper in an interview on Monday. Prost also believes Hamilton, leading the championship by ten points after two consecutive wins, is benefiting from the time spent in McLaren's simulator. "The simulator has reached an amazing perfection, it's even capable of simulating weather conditions, the rain, the wet asphalt, everything," the Frenchman added.

"And Hamilton has worked with the simulator a lot more than Alonso, and his driving style is very smooth, less rough than the Spaniard. I think that's why for McLaren is easier to set up the car for Hamilton's style." Fifty-two year-old Prost, who retired from the sport in 1993, admitted he is not happy with Formula One's current status, and he believes too much technology is ruining the racing.

"Now it's not the same. Back in my days, the driver was more important than the car; now, it's technology first and then the driver's hands," Prost said. "The cars are so equally matched because of the limitations and the technological advances that make overtaking so hard. "The races are decided in the pits. The strategies are decisive in Formula One, the only thing that the teams can't take into account is driving errors."

[Flatbutt1]

Originally posted by JSDSKI
"The races are decided in the pits. The strategies are decisive in Formula One, the only thing that the teams can't take into account is driving errors."

Hence the better driver wins.

[TimothyFarrar]

The look Alonso gave to the camera after huging Hamilton (after they got out of the cars) is priceless. For driver error, Alonso's little 1 second wheel off cost him the opportunity of a win. So regardless of who pitted first, Alonso would have been second.

In regards to making F1 more interesting, personally I think they should remove the technological limits and allow the teams to go nuts with what ever money they can get. Then have something like 4 classes (think ALMS) so there is a large amount of passing lapped traffic. Also remove the blue flag, and force the lead cars to have to pass the slower ones. You will have plenty of action, lots of chances for human error, and performance/budget levels which allow for new teams to enter the series.

[Jims5543]

You mean like remove the Traction Control in 2008?

Gonna be interesting next year fellas.

[legion]

I completely disagree with this: "I think now having two equal cars within the same team is a mistake. In the end it will hurt them because it generates too much tension..."

Competition breeds performance. If one guy is designated first string and the other second, there is no real competition. Heck, the most exciting moment of the race was when Alonso attempted to pass Hamilton. Had this been any other series, they would have traded places multiple times.

[dd74]

So is Prost saying Hamilton has no natural talent? That all his ability is simulated because it was supposedly achieved with a simulator?

BTW: in addition to the traction control being eliminated, I thought I heard something about the sequential gearbox also being done away with for a more traditional manual.

You can have all the tech in the world, and still have a lousy race car. Toyota is proof of that.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by legion
I completely disagree with this: "I think now having two equal cars within the same team is a mistake. In the end it will hurt them because it generates too much tension..."

Competition breeds performance. If one guy is designated first string and the other second, there is no real competition. Heck, the most exciting moment of the race was when Alonso attempted to pass Hamilton. Had this been any other series, they would have traded places multiple times.

Agree and remember where this is coming from. Prost may have been a very good driver but the French are not exactly seen as "go getters" around the world.

Alonso is worried because he has a up and coming world class driver in a car AS FAST AS HIS in the same team, and this is not what he bargained for when signing on with McLaren.

[dd74]

If that's the case, tough *****, Alonso. There's always NASCAR.

[Deschodt]

Funny how we can read the same thing and come up with totally different opinions...

I read above that Prost is French so his opinion does not count ? Okay... But he's also 4 times world champion and has more driving talent in his pinkie than all the posters on this thread, so that gives his opinion some weight ;-)

In his days, he had to fight Piquet, Mansell, Senna and others for the crown.. And I think he's specifically alluding to the fact that modern F1 do so much for the drivers (traction control, paddle shifter, etc) that a less experienced rookie (with talent, no doubt) is not really at much of a disadvantage compared to a 2 times WC like Alonso... Also bear in mind he lived though the nasty Senna-prost Era at McLaren with 2 World championships being decided by drivers pushing the other in the gravel trap, so he knows how nasty it can turn inside McLaren, Ron Dennis has not proven yet that he can manage 2 great drivers simultaneously!!

I happen to agree that it will turn nasty soon... But as long as they don't take each other out, it's great fun to watch the resurgence of McLaren, and the incredible talent of Hamilton giving Fernando fits... Don;t rule him out though, the guy beat Schumi, he's resilient !

I think Prost is spot on, it smells like a remake of Prost-Senna runaway fight... And I think he's spot on the fact that today's F1s do too much, can't wait for next year with no Traction control... And I'd reintroduce a clutch pedal too ;-)

[}{arlequin]

Originally posted by dd74
If that's the case, tough *****, Alonso. There's always NASCAR.

either that or he can turn into an eddie irvine and make gazillions being the best 2ndary supporting driver for a very long time

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Losing the TCS next year is gonna' be awesome.

[herr_oberst]

Originally posted by Deschodt
In his days, he had to fight Piquet, Mansell, Senna and others for the crown..

Lets not forget Lauda. Alain would have been five times world champion, but he lost the title to Niki Lauda by 1/2 point, due to the Monaco rain deluge, both of them in the MP4/2 with the TAG -Porsche turbo motor. I feel like a nostalgic old fossil for even bringing that up.

I think Ron Dennis handled those two superstars pretty well, but as devils advocate, Lauda was on his way out and Prost was on his way up.

I'd like to see F1 remove the wings completely. Undertray can be free, no moving parts (sliding skirts, etc) no barge boards or winglets.

Get rid of the 13 inch wheels, 15 or larger for the back. 13's have no connection with modern tire technology, inasmuch as it relates to road cars.

How are they going to control TCU? I heard talk about common ECM, but I can't imagine Mercedes or Renault allowing that.

Common sense left the F1 circus decades ago.

Just my 2 cents

[450knotOffice]

Personally, I'm waiting for the inevitable fireworks on-track. There will come a time, sooner than later I believe, when one of those two will lose his cool and they'll both be out. It'll be Prost-Senna all over again.

I like this kind of tension on one team. It'll be fun to watch.

[dd74]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice
...one of those two will lose his cool and they'll both be out.

Nah - every team needs a superstar. Every team also needs to lose a superstar. Take the Lakers and Kobe Bryant for instance...

[450knotOffice]

I meant one of them (or both) will take both of them out of a race, just like Prost and Senna did to each other to decide a championship - twice.

[JSDSKI]

Some interesting takes on Prost's quote. Sometimes the better car or better fuel strategy or better tire strategy wins - not necessarily the better driver. Prost's point is not Hamilton is untalented - clearly he's a freak of nature and an amazing driver. I take Prost to mean - "here's another angle to consider when measuring Hamilton's debut season".

Hamilton has been groomed for ten plus years - its a perfect storm of talent and training.

It's not that they don't have identical cars. They don't. F1 cars aren't set up the same - they are set up according for each driver. Different design choices reinforces different driving styles.

I think he's right about team drivers competing against each other, tho. That's one of the reasons Schumacher / Ferrari was so dominant. Everything was in support of the number one. No diluting of engineering and preparation within the team. Team wise, it makes a lot of sense and I still don't understand why Mac and Williams have this thing about drivers fighting each other within the same team. Seems a waste of resources. Makes for some exciting seasons, tho.

With regard to technology in F1 versus driver input. I'm all for technology and advancement. I just think the balance between engineering/money and driver has leaned to far away from driving skill. It only makes sense for manufacturers wanting to have maximum impact per dollar spent. I'd just prefer to see the technological input be regulated more towards mechanical grip and less towards aero grip.

[legion]

Originally posted by JSDSKI
I think he's right about team drivers competing against each other, tho. That's one of the reasons Schumacher / Ferrari was so dominant. Everything was in support of the number one. No diluting of engineering and preparation within the team. Team wise, it makes a lot of sense and I still don't understand why Mac and Williams have this thing about drivers fighting each other within the same team. Seems a waste of resources. Makes for some exciting seasons, tho.

Why bother running two cars if you only want one to win? Seems like an enormous waste of money...

[dd74]

Originally posted by legion
Why bother running two cars if you only want one to win? Seems like an enormous waste of money...

If one gets knocked out, the other might still score some points. Look at Roush racing. They have a virtual monopoly running on any given Sunday.

[Zeke]

Originally posted by legion
Heck, the most exciting moment of the race was when Alonso attempted to pass Hamilton. Had this been any other series, they would have traded places multiple times.

Yep, for 3 years now I've been mostly satisfied with Bob Varsha's recap on Speed News. I've watched maybe 5 F1 races in 3 years. In fact, anymore, all I watch is the Daytona 500, Indy 500 and NASCAR's All Star Challenge (if I remember). That gives me a snapshot of each series' whole year, which is all I need nowadays after spending 100's of weekends glued to the tube starting at 4:30 in the morning.

Off season broadcasts of Austrailian racing plus some reruns or synopsis versions of some of the series racing (like the SCCA Runoffs) is a lot more fun to watch.

[JSDSKI]

The second, third, fourth cars are exponentially cheaper after you R&D and build the first one. Teams run multiple cars for multiple data points - especially in practice - each car can run different programs and work towards a consensus on race setup and strategy. It's also a requirement for each constructor in F1.