VP is Outside the Executive Branch?

[Superman]

As you know I hate to discuss politics but was just wondering about you guys' impression of VP Cheney's latest assertion. He says he does not have to comply with a Presidential Order issued by President Bush simply because Mr. Cheney believes (or says he believes) that the VP's office is not part of the Executive Branch of our government. This just goes to show you how little I understand our government. I thought Cheney was Bush's running mate way back when, and I also thought Dubya was Cheney's boss.

Oh, and of course Cheney tried to abolish the agency that is asking him to share information. Of course.

This "administration" is certainly setting our government up for smooth running in the future, eh? Part of the plan, I suspect. A little anarchy is a good thing, depending on your perspective.

[the]

Originally posted by Superman
He says he does not have to comply with a Presidential Order issued by President Bush simply because Mr. Cheney believes (or says he believes) that the VP's office is not part of the Executive Branch of our government.

Do you have a link to the quote where Cheney said that he "believes that the VP's office is not part of the Executive Branch of our government?"

[Superman]

Here's one:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/320876_cheney22.html


Here's another one:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1151ap_cheney_secrecy.html

[teenerted1]

here my quote on the other post on this idiot

he better take another civics lesson
http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/cabinet.html

Executive Branch
The power of the executive branch is vested in the President, who also serves as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. The President appoints the Cabinet and oversees the various agencies and departments of the federal government.

In order for a person to become President, he or she must be a natural-born citizen of the United States, be at least 35 years of age, and have resided in the United States for at least 14 years. Once elected, the President serves a term of four years and may be re-elected only once.



President Bush's Cabinet

The tradition of the Cabinet dates back to the beginnings of the Presidency itself. One of the principal purposes of the Cabinet (drawn from Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution) is to advise the President on any subject he may require relating to the duties of their respective offices.

The Cabinet includes the Vice President and the heads of 15 executive departments-the Secretaries of Agriculture, Commerce, Defense, Education, Energy, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, Housing and Urban Development, Interior, Labor, State, Transportation, Treasury, and Veterans Affairs, and the Attorney General. Under President George W. Bush, Cabinet-level rank also has been accorded to the Administrator, Environmental Protection Agency; Director, Office of Management and Budget; the Director, National Drug Control Policy; and the U.S. Trade Representative.


Department of Agriculture
Secretary Mike Johanns
www.usda.gov

Mike Johanns
Department of the Interior
Secretary Dirk Kempthorne
www.doi.gov

Department of Commerce
Secretary Carlos Gutierrez
www.doc.gov

Department of Justice
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales
www.usdoj.gov

Department of Defense
Secretary Robert M. Gates
www.defenselink.mil

Department of Labor
Secretary Elaine Chao
www.dol.gov

Department of Education
Secretary Margaret Spellings
www.ed.gov

Department of State
Secretary Condoleezza Rice
www.state.gov

Department of Energy
Secretary Samuel W. Bodman
www.energy.gov

Department of Transportation
Secretary Mary E. Peters
www.dot.gov

Department of Health &
Human Services
Secretary Michael O. Leavitt
www.hhs.gov

Department of the Treasury
Secretary Henry M. Paulson, Jr.
www.ustreas.gov

Department of
Homeland Security
Secretary Michael Chertoff
www.dhs.gov

Department of
Veterans Affairs
Secretary Jim Nicholson
www.va.gov

Department of Housing &
Urban Development
Secretary Alphonso Jackson
www.hud.gov
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cabinet Rank Members

The Vice President
Richard B. Cheney
www.whitehouse.gov/vicepresident/

White House
Chief of Staff
Joshua B. Bolten

Office of Management
and Budget
Rob Portman
www.omb.gov


United States Trade Representative
Ambassador Susan Schwab
www.ustr.gov

Environmental Protection Agency
Stephen Johnson
www.epa.gov

Office of National
Drug Control Policy
John Walters
www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov

[red-beard]

Never really thought about it, but, here we go!

Article I, Section 3: VP duties

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

Article II, Section 1:

Describes how to elect a Vice President, but no duties, etc.

It describes how a Vice President will become President

Article II, Section 4: Describes how to remove from Office the VP

12th Amendment: Choosing Vice-President

20th Amendment: Time of Service, Death of President and succesion,

25th Amendment: vice becomes President, President selects vice.

So, based above, the only duties spelled out, Article I - Section 3, puts the Vice President in the Senate. Maybe he has a point.

Article II, Section 2 does not spell out who is in the Cabinet, so it could be anyone

[the]

Originally posted by Superman
Here's one:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/320876_cheney22.html


Here's another one:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1151ap_cheney_secrecy.html

Thanks, I've now read both of them, but still don't see it.

Can you point me to exactly where Cheney said that he "believes that the VP's office is not part of the Executive Branch of our government?"

[lendaddy]

Sounds like Cheney gave your boys the finger, he does that.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I agree with Dick here. Now that that's settled, thanks in advance for handing over the Energy Commission notes currently being protected by Executive Privilege.

[mattdavis11]

He's President of the Senate. Legislative branch.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
I agree with Dick here. Now that that's settled, thanks in advance for handing over the Energy Commission notes currently being protected by Executive Privilege.

Oh man you've got him now! Oh wait.......probably not

[red-beard]

Hmmmmm.

Shaun, you have a point. From a separation of powers standpoint, he is in the Legislative branch, he shouldn't be in the Cabinet.

See, this is the reason I do not like the 12th amendment. I think it would be far better to go back to the original design. Most votes = President, 2nd most = vice president.

Cheney would not be in the cabinet and neither would John Kerry! Can imagine Bush as President and Kerry as VP?

[the]

Originally posted by Superman
VP Cheney's latest assertion. He says he does not have to comply with a Presidential Order issued by President Bush simply because Mr. Cheney believes (or says he believes) that the VP's office is not part of the Executive Branch of our government.

Still waiting for the factual support for the premise of this thread.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Oh man you've got him now! Oh wait.......probably not

You are right Joel, but only because Cheney treats the Constitution like toilet paper. he's the same kind of coward that hides behind the definition of "is".

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
You are right Joel, but only because Cheney treats the Constitution like toilet paper. he's the same kind of coward that hides behind the definition of "is".

If you're right he'll lose in court.

Anyway, last I knew his meeting were protected as the attendants were advisers. I don't recall the executive privilege thing.

[mattdavis11]

He's not part of the Executive branch. The Executive branch can not, I repeat, can NOT order anything on the legislative branch. The pres. can employ the power which shall force the leg. to pass a budget. Recommendations are subtle, yes. Order, no. We are talking about the one who casts the 101st vote.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally posted by lendaddy
If you're right he'll lose in court.

Anyway, last I knew his meeting were protected as the attendants were advisers. I don't recall the executive privilege thing.

don't worry, you'll get a refresher course this week, but Cheney argued that the just having to respond to discovery requests would violate executive privilege.

Looking forward to the WH spin on this.

Ya know, Cheney and Clinton are a lot like POR15 and Aircraft Coating Remover. They are both very different in almost every physical way, but both will make you equally sick without a proper respirator.

off to finish up my rear hubs.