emmm I dont think thats being a hypocrite, I think thats perverting the course of justice.

Funny, but you misread my post.

When I said "subpoena the stuff and be done with it", I meant with the griping about not being able to get one. I fully well realize that simply procuring a radar operator manual will not absolve you. It provides valuable information that MIGHT help to exonerate someone, but it is not a "slam dunk".

As far as the bull**** rationalization about how speeding tickets and traffic enforcement is a "loser" for communities (and it is bull**** rationalization), it's simply not believable. Post real numbers and real dollar figures here if you want to take that position - I challenge you to. Publicly. Please. I want to see how the altruistic knights of public service are responding to their civic charge in life by going out and busting someone for 5 miles over the speed limit on a deserted country road at 2AM (or whatever) and have no financial motivation whatsoever to do so. Please post some actual dollar numbers here instead of the crap you're taught to swallow without thinking as part of PD academy brainwashing.

Christien, make sure you revive this thread after your court date in October to let us know the outcome.

As a result of reading this post, I'll definitely ask the nice policeman/woman to see the read-out. It's worth a shot.

I will, so long as I remember! :) It's definitely worth a shot. If nothing else, you can learn a bit more about the unit, where it sits, how it's aimed, etc.

Even so, if you challenge the evidence and the cop doesn't show up to court (happens all the time) you are automatically off the hook.

Well, that also depends. In some places (like where I live), apparently the LEO doesn't have to show. He/she just has a colleague read off the report filed. Of course, if you start questioning the report, there's no way for the stand-in LEO to respond to your challenges, so perhaps you can win that way. But just be forewarned.

Here you get off if they don't show. I believe it's actually something constitutional - something to do with having the right to face your accuser in person. If I'm not mistaken, it's the same reason they had to do away with photo radar.

Here in Massachusetts, you're guilty until proven innocent. (A bit ironic, isn't it?) Unless you happen to be a Kennedy. Then you're innocent no matter what you did.

Write a letter to the California department of transportation if you want those numbers. The California DMV and the California Highway Patrol could also likely give you the numbers. I'm not interested enough to pursue the exact data. The percentages are enough for me.

You live in Long Beach, CA. There is an unwritten policy at LBPD to "give away" 14 mph. So if the speed limit is 40, they wont bother you at 54 and below.

A LBPD motors "goal" is 11 tickets a day. They can write 8 tickets during the first hour and a half of their shift, goof off for the next 7 hours, and then write 3 more tickets sometime during the last hour and a half, and thats it for the day. I hate motor officers. Lazy pieces of S---, every single one of them. but I digress...

I worked at LBPD during the crack cocaine epidemic of the 1990's. In 1994 your city had 144 homicides. Long Beach is a tough town. Please trust me when I say that your patrolmen have very little time for "busting someone for 5 miles over the speed limit on a deserted country road at 2AM (or whatever)". :D

I left that City in 2002 because LB is a very poor city and is among the worst paid departments in California. (The money is so bad, in fact, that I became heavily involved in Real Estate and bought a property management company because I didn't want to be poor forever.)

Where I work now, There are no murders. There is no violent crime. The citizens demand traffic enforcement. People in the neighborhoods come out of there houses and give you gift certificates for 10 free dozen of Krispy Kreme Doughnuts, just to thank you for working stop signs and speed enforcement on their streets.

Is it fun? Its not Long Beach. I enjoyed working street sales and gang enforcement. The first time I was ever shot at was on the northwest corner of Atlantic and New York. They hit our car but not us. Total rush. But enough is enough. I had to kill a savage who was trying to kill me. I have a letter from Gil Garcetti stating that I acted in self defense, and that the death was ruled justifiable homicide. When you have a family, your priorities tend to change. Yes, I miss the constant chaos and the "vibe" that one only gets on Artesia between Atlantic and The Boulevard. I even got to know Suge Knight's mom (very nice lady), sister and crack head brother-in-law...

Bottom line, where I work now the citizens want traffic enforcement. I give them traffic enforcement.

Christien: I have a teaching history regarding radar. Feel free to PM me specific questions; I don't want to get into a debate with all the experts on this thread. Good luck on winning your case....

http://www.decaturradar.com/detail.php?Detail_ID=13

This isn't true everywhere, sadly. WA actually has it noted in the code, that the officer isn't required to be present. There is a supreme court case from March of 03 that could apply, regarding the use of ex parte testimony.

Will it help in a traffic "court?" Probably not, but I'll look it up this afternoon if anybody wants it.

Crawford v Washington, 8MAR04. From wikipedia, "reformulated the standard for determining when the admission of hearsay statements in criminal cases is permitted under the Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution." If you read the ruling (and it isn't long), there's a lot of good stuff about how ex parte testimony was forbidden by the founding father's to prevent exactly this sort of abuse.

The thing you may run into if you use this in a traffic "court" is that you're not being tried for a criminal offense. Civil law is different.

Good luck.

Not True. I shoot Laser everyday. If my battery goes dead and I plug into my bike. Every time I start up my bike after shooting and locking the laser, it will clear itself. I still write the ticket, explain it on the cite and it has never been a problem. So it is possible that his unit could of cleared itself.

Something else. I pulled someone over with New Jersy plates the other day. The first thing he asked me, before he would "give" me his license was if I pulled him over because he had out of state plates. I could give a crap what state he was from, I pulled him over because he was going 18 mph over the speed limit. The funny thing, I was going to give him a warning intil the first thing out of his mouth was that.

Where do you guys get this stuff. Maybe it's a state thing. I don't have a License to use a Radar or Laser. I am certified. I only need to have that certificate with me in court along with a current speed survey of the road and the radar or laser units latest calibration.

Gotta agree with you there. Unless it's a school zone with children present, I don't write any tickets for less then 15mph. I'm still busy all day.

wow, to think the last ticket I got in Canada ( driving home from Mt Treblant), I decided to not pay ( Ontario only has reprocity with NY and MI).. yeah I may be a wanted man in CAN, but I"m $300 richer,, F-em!!! LOL

I argued this point before, but a visual "estimate" is not that difficult to do. I guess I'm just gifted.;) It's actually a game for me. I see a car, estimate its speed then confirm with my laser. I do that every time and I'm good at it. Because I typically work laser in the same specific areas, I know what 10-15 mph over looks like when I see it.

We only train up to 90mph. In that case All I would have to say was that you were traveling at an extremely high rate of speed. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that that is much faster then whatever the posted speed limit is. Besides once you went to court to fight that ticket. If that speed was caught on laser, you would have much bigger issues then what the cop estimated your speed at.

I don't know one motorcyle cop who writes for less then 10 mph. All the ones I work with don't even start our bikes unless your going more then 15 mph over. But, I also don't give alot of warnings. I figure that if you ride by me and your doing 10-14 mph over, you just got your warning.

Financial motivation? Wow, I write alot of tickets, someone must of forgotten me, I haven't received anything. Guess I'm not writing enough tickets.

Don't be a hater. Sounds like your doing the exact same thing as those lazy pieces of S--- motor officers you hate except you have air conditioning. Don't know how long you've been on the job, But I didn't spend my entire 16 years on a bike and neither have any of my friends. Like you said, after you have a family or have been involved in a few things your priorities tend to change.