Anyone Use a Residential Land Surveyor?

[ikarcuaso]

Anyone ever use one? Any suggestions on what to look for when screening these guys, what questions to ask, etc? How accurate are they, and what are the chances that different surveyors can have different findings? We only need to define the property line on one side of our lot (and that is all we wish to pay for).

There's some uncertainly about the boundary between our property and one of our neighbors. Parcel maps given to us by our seller indicate there is a 10'-wide city-owned path between our properties, but we need to clarify where that is. Our neighbors park their vehicle on what we believe to be part of our property. They say it is part of the city-owned section.

Also, before we hire a surveyor, anyone know if this type of dispute can typically be settled with the help of the municipality, since city land is involved?

Thx. for any input.

[URY914]

All land survyors have to be lienced and carry liability insurance. If they are wrong they pay. You also should be able to look at county/city land maps (sometimes online) and determine easements. Go to the court house and ask for the property appraser's office. They will pull out the aerial photos with property lines printed on them.

Didn't you have a survey done when you bought the property? You should have a copy of that and it sould tell you who the surveyor was. You could go back to him and let him do the research.

[john70t]

(If I remember my class correctly) here's some background info:

The Rectangular Survey System uses a Baseline(horizontal) and a Meridian(vertical) to divide parts of the states into Counties, then Sections one square mile each. Your recorded plat(plot of land) is located within that.
Michigan uses 8mile road for the baseline and the meridian is near Lansing,I think.

The Metes(angle) and Bounds(distance) will define the extent of your property using a local landmark(trees/walls/plate in concrete/etc..).
Maps/descriptions should be available from the county as informal proof.

[KFC911]

Jim C. where are you ? Although I'm sure it may vary from state to state, this is right up his alley....

[slow&rusty]

Paul pretty much covered it. I have supervised several land surveyors over the years and I would ensure they are licenced of course. Once they get the Legal description for your property available at the Land Office \ County Assessor's office etc, they will be able to tie it to a permanent survey mark or cap and lay out exactly where your property \ boundary lines are.

Hope that helps

Yasin

[ckissick]

I'm a civil engineer who does surveying, although not for property boundaries. I create site maps for the work that we do. You need to first talk to the City or County, get the Assessor's Parcel Map, and any other maps they may have. See if there is a "record of survey" for your property or an adjacent property.

Then you will probably need to hire a surveyor who does a lot of work in your area, since he will have his own accurate bench marks. But some surveyors are pretty lame. I know which ones to hire and avoid here on the Peninsula, but not Oakland. I've seen property corners that were off by a few feet, mismarked orientations of property lines, and even incorrect north arrows.

PM me and we can talk about it. I can call some engineer friends in the East Bay and see who they recommend. I can recommend a guy out of Foster City, but he may not want to do work in Oakland. But he might know a good guy. This kind of work often goes to court.

[ikarcuaso]

Thanks for the all helpful input.

Charlie, thanks for the offer to help. I'll send you a PM.

Originally posted by ckissick
...This kind of work often goes to court.

Man, this is really the last thing we want. Unfortunately, based on our experience w/the guy next door, I can see him really pushing hard on this. He's not the type that would let good, neighborly relations get in the way of being arrogant and pompous.

In my opinion, of course.

[Icemaster]

Try PMing Jim Cesiro on here, he's a surveyor. He'd probably be able to provide some guidance.

[pwd72s]

I hired a surveying firm a few years ago. A property line dispute with a neighbor. (Often seems to be the case, doesn't it?) So, I dug out our title. Turns out that I own the lane between the complaining neighbor, I pay taxes on it. It's a 20' wide "right of passage" (not an easement) given to the neighbors who live behind me. Since the neighbor I had the dispute with has property facing the main county road, she does NOT have this "right of passage". Hmmmm. That means I could have fenced off both sides of this lane as far as my property line.

Looking at the title, I noticed that the original surveryor back in the 40's, was a local named Bert Udell. Bert's son Jim runs the surveying company now. So, I just called Jim, asked him if he'd like to check out his dad's work.

Jim sent a crew. With a metal detector, they quickly found the buried markers, marked and staked the lines.

Turns out that over the years, the right of passage lane had widened considerably, of course encroaching onto my property since I hadn't fenced it.

I called a fence company, had 528 feet of 5' high hurricane fence built along my side of the lane. The neighbor who had jumped all over Cindy, saying our trees were encroaching into the lane was quite upset. She quieted down once she learned that if I wanted to be nasty, I could fence the other side, blocking her from using the lane.

Good fences make good neighbors...and I don't regret for a moment the money I paid Jim Udell to survey the place. He even came out to look at the uncovered markers...just wanted to look at his dad's work.

[BeyGon]

Try Bob Wheat
Wheat Land Survey
925 328 1079

I have worked quite a bit with him and he has worked with the company I work for now.

[Jims5543]

There are reputable surveyors and there are hacks.

My suggestion would be to get 3 bids and pick the middle bid. Make sure you explain exactly what you are looking for prior to recieving the bid. A surveyor needs to know Its not as simple as marking a line. (unless it was the original surveyor) The line needs to be verified as correct, if you are in a platted subdivision the surveyor will tie to Permenant Control points and/or Permenant Reference monuments to accomplish this. This means surveying up the street from your property.

I would also ask if you can be there when they do the work, make sure they understand you will be out of the way but would like to consult with the crew while they are there. (This will ensure you get the firms "A" Team.


Also - when you either had your house built or when you purchased it, you had a survey done, you should have a copy in with your closing papers. Sometimes its more cost effective to reuse this surveyor because he has verified the property location.

This could turn into a legal issue with your neighbor, if I was the surveyor you called I would make sure to document all my work and conversations in case this issue went to court.

I see people fighting over property lines every day.

[p911dad]

You are entering a property line dispute. Because the outcome can get nasty, I suggest you think about contacting an attorney with a real estate specialty and talk to him or her about a likely surveyor. Also, it can get expensive. The best solution is to work out a solution with the neighbor and share the survey expense, if possible, before the whole thing gets to a bad point(like war with the neighbor). Good luck, and keep the checkbook handy..

[ikarcuaso]

Gentlemen, thanks again for all the help.

So if the landmarks and boundaries are fairly well defined, and the surveyor I hire determines there's little to no gray area at all (and that the area where our neighbor is parking is our land), what is the likelihood that another surveyor could find otherwise by virtue of merely being hired by the other guy?

By all appearances, the dude next door has got A LOT of flow. If $$ talks loudest in this case, I may as well just throw in the towel.

[URY914]

You could just skip the survey, put up a fence and get a pit bull.


OK, maybe not.

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by ikarcuaso
Gentlemen, thanks again for all the help.

So if the landmarks and boundaries are fairly well defined, and the surveyor I hire determines there's little to no gray area at all (and that the area where our neighbor is parking is our land), what is the likelihood that another surveyor could find otherwise by virtue of merely being hired by the other guy?

By all appearances, the dude next door has got A LOT of flow. If $$ talks loudest in this case, I may as well just throw in the towel.

Property lines are property lines. They do not move 10 feet.

If you have a surveyor come out and mark your line that will be where it is. A surveyor is licensed by the state and I have never heard of one taking a bribe to move a line. That would cost them their license and their ability to make money for many years.

Like I said before, I see this every day. In my opinion, you should talk to the neighbor first and express your concerns. Maybe he will agree to go halves on a surveyor with you. Then you both win.

[Icemaster]

You could just offer to sell him the small piece of land and be shut with it. That would require a survey without question.

[nota]

I was a goverment [county land surveyor] for the water dept

you have to start from a known point
allmost all lots/tracks have pipes set at the corners
some stickup others are buryed

simple first step is walk around and look for pipes
simple metal detector helps if they are buryed [rarely over a foot deep]
most pipes are iron 1 to 2'' diameter and 2 or so foot long
if lot/track is plated get a copy for a few bucks from your county records office
if build on or morgaged there is a survey and pipes in place
also most streets or roads are surveyed and center lines are marked so you can start at the nearest corner if the lot pipes are hard to find

if you can find both pipes on the disputed side
a string /rope line will show the route of the line between pipes

most line disputes can be solved by finding the pipes and showing them to the other party
spend/waste the cash if you must but a simple walk and look may solve the problem

[BeyGon]

Today you would use GPS, load the cordinates into the computer, walk out there follow the directions and walk to the corner/angle point in the property line. If you find the points, great, if the surveyor has to set points, that will cost. If he has to file a map, saying he set his tag, that will cost you. I think I would trust any Professional Licensed Surveyor, it is there life and they aren't going to cheat for someone.
As I said in an earlier post, call Bob Wheat, a Professional Surveyor, not far from where you are talking about.

[ikarcuaso]

The dispute in not over whether the land is owned by us or our neighbor. The question is whether we own it or it is city-owned. Our neighbor claims the latter, thus they are able to park there.

Thanks for the tips and recs. I'll likely hire a pro. I want to remove any and all doubt going forward.

I can't seem to find any survey from our purchase. FWIW, I found this (and other maps). We own Parcel A (which looks to be comprised of portions of both lots 523 & 524), and the boundary in question is the line above where it says "45.00'" in the upper left corner of pic #1.

[Jims5543]

You might be able to see who owns that land using this. Put in you adress and do a search, then you should be able to see an interactive map, once on the map you should be able to toggle into an information mode and be able to click on the 10' path and find out who owns it.

http://www.acgov.org/MS/prop/index.aspx

If you want to PM me your address I'll do some research from here and link you to what I find out.


The 10 foot path is probably an open right of way and you and your neighbor might be able to park in it. The HOA by laws might adress its use or the record plat that you posted scans from might define it more in its dedication.

As far as your survey goes, you most likely paid for one, if you do not have one your probably going to have a hard time getting one. I would at the very least call the title company and ask for a copy from your closing, you paid for it you should have recieved a copy from the title company. They will probably try to blow you off because asking for a copy will require them to work, they already appear to be a poor title company by not giving you a copy of your survey I will not be suprised if they try to get out of finding your copy.