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-   -   Lefties take aim at Cigars (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/358781-lefties-take-aim-cigars.html)

legion 07-26-2007 06:28 AM
And one that will ultimately collapse on its self, Jeff.

Eventually, people will realize "working is for suckas". Why work hard only to see a significant portion of your income being taken to support lazy people?

Rick Lee 07-26-2007 06:29 AM
Did I miss the post here where a cigar smoker endorsed foreign aid to Pakistan? Who did that? I don't know anyone who likes either idea. Shaun, why do you think they're linked?

onewhippedpuppy 07-26-2007 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 3395863)
Probably the most salient point made in this entire thread. If charities are truly worthwhile, truly help the intended recipients, well managed and efficient, then they should be able to attract donations on their own. When our gubmint feels the need to forcefully extract money from its productive citizens (by any means) to support charities of its choosing, one can bet they are none of these things. One can bet that they are simply not worthwhile enough to attract support on their own, absent gubmint coersion. One can bet that they are almost exclusively supporting our unproductive citizens; citizens that are unproductive by virtue of their own choosing. It is a system that punishes the motivated and rewards the unmotivated; a system that would never survive without big gubmint supporting it.
Thanks Jeff. The problem is, all things being equal, the goverment charity will be for less efficient and do less good than a private one. Most govt entities, if put into the private sector, would quickly fail because they bleed so much red. That means for every dollar of ours that they tax/steal, less of it actually goes into the hands of those that need it, compared to a private charity. Plus, in the private sector, YOU get to CHOOSE. Unique concept, actually thinking for yourself.:rolleyes:

While I love kids, I 100% agree with Jeff. This is just another entitlement program, one of many that is contributing to our lazy spoiled society. Why do it for yourself, let the govt do it for you! Sorry, but parents should be providing insurance. Can't afford it? How about you get off of your fat a$$ and get a job? I returned to college in my mid-20s because I wanted a better life for my family. Now I'm a full-time aerospace engineering major, with a minor in business management and math. In addition to being a full-time student, I also work 45 hours a week between two jobs, am married, and have two kids. I have very little sympathy for those that are content to let the govt provide for them. If I can make a better life for my family, there is no reason they cannot do the same.

m21sniper 07-26-2007 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gaijin (Post 3394700)
Today it is cigars. One day it will be cheese burgers, fries and more than 15 lb per Bhp. I dont trust the aging Boomers. They vote, there are many of them and 1968 is getting further and further away....
I agree- for the most part, that generation destroyed this country. :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 3394827)
C'mon, guys. It's not a left vs. right issue. That's no more than a smokescreen (pardon the pun) that you have all swallowed. It's us vs. "them", with the "them" being our lawmakers. There is no greater peril to your continuing freedoms than their continuing meeting. They have been at it too long. There are too many laws. This should not be a full-time job for them.
Absolutely 100% agreed.

m21sniper 07-26-2007 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 3395351)
Jesus Christ there are a lot of panties all bunched up on this thread. and of course a lot of disinformation.

Not only was this initiated by a republican (guess all the constituents who voted Smith in are RINO's too :rolleyes:), but congress is actually doing something decent with the money. And they aren't just borrowing it from China Bush style to fund the State Children's Health Insurance Program. They're taxing a luxury, like boats, and an unhealthy luxury at that.

Some facts: cigars are currently taxed at 4.8 cents per cigar. WTF is that about? that's not a tax, that's a nuisance. the tax is going up to 53% with a max tax of $10 per cigar. That's substantial, I'll grant you. A $5 cigar is now going to cost you $7.50. Live with it.

The State Children's Health Insurance Program is administered by Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, under the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services. The program's stated purpose is to "provide $24 billion in federal matching funds over 10 years to help states expand health care coverage to over 5 million of the nation's uninsured children." Its authorization expires Sept. 30. Senators have been in discussion about the program's particulars, including how to fund it and, possibly, how to fund an expansion of it.


yeah, get those emails of outrage put together. :rolleyes:
Why should we "live with it" genius? Bush is vetoing the bill. YOU live with it. I hate socialists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 3395733)
it always amazes me when folks b!tch about a $7 cigar but they are just fine with Bush giving Musharef $10 billion over the last 6 years with no ROI.

Priorities. Think about the kids this money will help. Sometimes it's not just about "Me".
To hell with your kids. You- or anyone else- shouldnt have had them if you cant take care of them. Expecting me to pay for them is merely setting yourself up for disappointment, cause that AINT happenin' thief.

Porsche-O-Phile 07-26-2007 08:31 AM
NO NEW F*CKING TAXES, FEES, SURCHARGES, REGULATIONS OR LAWS!!!

How's that for a start?

And no friggin' universal health care either - if people want to drink/shoot up (Lindsey Lohan) or smoke cigars occasionally or eat Big Macs until they puke every day for 20 years, I say let 'em. And let THEM pay their own medical expenses for the repercussions.

What happened to America? When did we turn into France?

m21sniper 07-26-2007 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 3395803)
that's not really what I'm saying, but I know it makes you feel good, so go with it. I'm just tired of people like you whining like a little school girl over a $7 cigar. "waahhhhh, poor me, me, me, me, me.":(:(:(:(:(:(

:rolleyes:
And we're all tired of socialists, err, theives, err communists....stealing our money and utterly mismanaging and wasting it.

We're tired of YOU Shaun. :)

Shaun @ Tru6 07-26-2007 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by m21sniper (Post 3396062)
Why should we "live with it" dip-shiit? Bush is vetoing the bill. YOU live with it. I hate socialists.
Name calling. Great. :rolleyes: You want to get beyond 3rd grade some day soon?

I'm happy to live with it. I honestly have no problem paying $7 for a $5 cigar.

You want to live in this country? You've got three choices:
1. Pony up for this terrrrrrrrrrrrrrible tax :rolleyes:
2. Don't like it? Don't whine about it on a BBS, do something about it.
3. Don't like it? Leave. From so many of your posts, you'd fit well in Communist China.

Shaun @ Tru6 07-26-2007 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by m21sniper (Post 3396080)
And we're all tired of socialists, err, theives, err communists....stealing our money and utterly mismanaging and wasting it.

We're tired of YOU Shaun. :)
I don't see you complaining about $10 billion to Musharef or $ half a trillion wasted in Iraq.

Mismanagement and waste on scales far above anything this country has ever seen. But hey, at least you had really cheap cigars for a long time.

EDIT: and I'm so far to the right of you so many issues, it's laughable. I just don't whine about taxes on cigars.

m21sniper 07-26-2007 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 3396082)
Name calling. Great. :rolleyes: You want to get beyond 3rd grade some day soon?

I'm happy to live with it. I honestly have no problem paying $7 for a $5 cigar.

You want to live in this country? You've got three choices:
1. Pony up for this terrrrrrrrrrrrrrible tax :rolleyes:
2. Don't like it? Don't whine about it on a BBS, do something about it.
3. Don't like it? Leave. From so many of your posts, you'd fit well in Communist China.

I don't see you complaining about $10 billion to Musharef or $ half a trillion wasted in Iraq.

Mismanagement and waste on scales far above anything this country has ever seen. But hey, at least you had really cheap cigars for a long time.

EDIT: and I'm so far to the right of you so many issues, it's laughable. I just don't whine about taxes on cigars.
1) This terrible tax is being vetoed. (so again, YOU live without it. :))
2) I already served in uniform, and i vote. I also try to reach out to THOUSANDS of other americans on BBS's, thereby amplifying my voice. So the very act of 'whining about it' IS also simultaneously DOING something about it.
3) I hate communist/socialists- which is why i dont like YOU. Because you and all socialists are thieves, plain and simple.
4) Every dime given to musharraf is a terrible waste of our funds. There are thousands of other such programs as well. I oppose all of them.
5) If you don't 'whine' when being blatantly stolen from, then you truly are a moron, and no one should be listening to you. In fact- go sit quietly in the corner, the adults are talking.

Shaun @ Tru6 07-26-2007 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by m21sniper (Post 3396086)
1) This terrible tax is being vetoed.
2) I already served in uniform, and i vote.
3) I hate communist/socialists- which is why i dont like YOU.

HAND. :)
It's being vetoed for reasons other than this tax. Get informed.

Thanks for serving. Really. I'm not sure how that pertains here. Are you a better citizen than me? Doubtful. it's great that you vote. You voted for more government growth, waste and spending than any Democrat in office could have ever achieved. good job on that!

Not sure why you think I'm a commie/socialist? you're the one who's aligned himself with bush who has subjugated the US to China to borrow money to pay for the war. Given the friends you keep, you are more of a commie than I could ever be.

Shaun @ Tru6 07-26-2007 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by m21sniper (Post 3396086)
1) This terrible tax is being vetoed. (so again, YOU live without it. :))
2) I already served in uniform, and i vote.
3) I hate communist/socialists- which is why i dont like YOU. Because you and all socialists are thieves, plain and simple.
4) Every dime given to musharraf is a terrible waste of our funds. There are thousands of other such programs as well. I oppose all of them.
5) If you don't 'whine' when being blatantly stolen from, then you truly are a moron, and no one should be listening to you. In fact- go sit quietly in the corner, the adults are talking.
Adults? dude, you're the one name calling. I'm the one with the facts. :rolleyes: this country needs less people like you.

The Gaijin 07-26-2007 08:48 AM
It is just so easy to take other people's money out of their pockets. .. The logic is "cigars are smelly and tobacco is bad for you", so that gives them the right to dip further into some peoples pockets?? I think not.

What about equal protection under the law? How about our inalienable rights?? Bad laws, bad political philosophy.

m21sniper 07-26-2007 08:50 AM
Sorry Shaun84 targa (a socialist driving an elitist/exotic sports car, i love the blatant hypocrisy), i don't pretend to be nice, amicable, or even friendly to socialists (aka communists, aka thieves).
By your own stated views, you are my political enemy- why would i be nice to you? I want to see you and your kind defeated in the political forum, and your lazy, self-centered mentality of social entitlement cast into the depths of oblivion for all time. There is no place for socialists at my table.

Perhaps if more Americans let the gov't know in no uncertain terms, as i have here, that we are done tolerating their wholesale social petri dish thieving experimentation, it will stop.

Certainly 'being nice' to our political opponents will do nothing other than to accelerate the rate at which we address one another as "Comrade". America was founded on the notion of individual over society. You socialists have spent the last 75 years UTTERLY subverting the founding fathers vision of what this country is supposed to be about. We were FAR more free under the British.

So again, in closing, keep your hands out of my pockets thief, cause one of these days, all you're going to get for your troubles is two bloody stumps.

Shaun @ Tru6 07-26-2007 08:56 AM
Great! :rolleyes:

I'm being chastised, lectured and threatened by the Paris Hilton of Pelican OT.

My day is complete.:cool:

m21sniper 07-26-2007 09:01 AM
Pretty sad that your only response to the avalanche of common sense i've just hand delivered to you is a witless remark about a lovely young twit.

The problem with socialists is that they're too stupid to realize they're hypocritical morons, but that they're not quite stupid enough to forget to breathe.

Would you support a 53% porsche tax, retroactive to the day you got your Targa? If the answer is no- you are a blatant hypocrite. How about a 53% real estate tax? How about an air tax? Why should we get free air when the gov't can charge us for it- it is afterall "US Airspace" we live in. I am quite sure a socialist-lawyer could make an argument out of why air should be taxed.

If i want to donate to charity, i will. If you MAKE me 'donate', the word for it is extortion, and it's not a donation, it's wholesale theft. People will only take so much thievery before they bash your face in with the shovel of freedom...

Any of this sinking in Comrade?

onewhippedpuppy 07-26-2007 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa (Post 3396084)
I don't see you complaining about $10 billion to Musharef or $ half a trillion wasted in Iraq.
Shaun, you're beating this to death, in a big way. Last time I checked, nobody on this thread is speaking out in support of this. This cigar issue is just the tip of the iceburg on our huge government f-up. But you know something? Your socialist Democrat buddies are no better than the evil Rebublicans. The "party of change" has proven to be more of the same. The sooner you pull your head out and realize this, the better off you will be.

NONE of them give a rats ass what we think, it's all about pandering to whatever demographic they feel will give them the most money/votes. You really think they give a $hit about poor kids? Talk about naive......... The less power we give to ANY of them, the less laws that tell us how to live our life, the less policies that only serve to create a society of entitlement, the better off we ALL will be.

Mule 07-26-2007 12:22 PM
Tell ya what Shaun, next time you buy a cigar, send the $2.50 to $10.00 to Hillary, Obama, Al Gore or better yet me.

Shaun said:
"You want to live in this country? You've got three choices:
1. Pony up for this terrrrrrrrrrrrrrible tax
2. Don't like it? Don't whine about it on a BBS, do something about it.
3. Don't like it? Leave. From so many of your posts, you'd fit well in Communist China."

Actually there's another choice, work to have the cradle to the grave type socialist concept of you & others like you defeated. That way you can leave. Sounds like a much better plan to me.

Shaun @ Tru6 07-26-2007 12:24 PM
Just pointing out hypocrisy Matt, and nanny whining about $7 cigars when we have much bigger problems to debate, but thanks for dragging it back to the top! SmileWavy and nice recap of the obvious.

and enough with this socialist democrat stuff. I'm righter than you on many issues. please. :)


on the topic of "nobody speaking out in favor this", I have two things to say:
1. the disinformation in the thread is staggering. Lots of outrage, pitchforks and torches, but not a whole lot of invested knowledge.

2. I'm just emulating your buddy George Bush. I don't form my opinions based on what other people say in a thread when they clearly don't understand the issue.

peace man.

Shaun @ Tru6 07-26-2007 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mule (Post 3396478)
Tell ya what Shaun, next time you buy a cigar, send the $2.50 to $10.00 to Hillary, Obama, Al Gore or better yet me.

Shaun said:
"You want to live in this country? You've got three choices:
1. Pony up for this terrrrrrrrrrrrrrible tax
2. Don't like it? Don't whine about it on a BBS, do something about it.
3. Don't like it? Leave. From so many of your posts, you'd fit well in Communist China."

Actually there's another choice, work to have the cradle to the grave type socialist concept of you & others like you defeated. That way you can leave. Sounds like a much better plan to me.
Lot's of emotion, little fact.

and I'll win. that's another fact.


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