Moral Dilemma

[Dottore]

So three days after we bought my wife's new ML 320 CDI I get a call from the dealer who says that when they wrote the bill of sale they accidently forgot to charge me luxury tax. (Apparently they ticked a box for cars on which no luxury tax is payable.) Now the taxman is out $900.-

I said well it's an honest mistake, and I doubt very much the taxman will notice it - so why don't we just pretend we didn't spot the error.

The dealer says, well that is tax fraud, and we're a public company and cannot get involved in this sort of thing etc.

I say it wasn't fraud. It was an honest mistake. And here's what I'll do: I give you my undertaking that if the taxman notices the mistake and sends you an invoice for the $900, I will pay this. And the dealer knows I'm good for this.

I didn't dicker much on the price, and took no more than an hour of the salesman's time. We knew what we wanted, and bought a few options etc - so I'm sure they made a pretty penny on the deal. And they are not out of pocket. And they're covered in the highly unlikely event the error ever sees the light of day.

The dealer tried to get hard-nosed with me in the end, and I told him I would drop by on Monday for a coffee. But I think my position is fair.

What do you think?

[many944s]

Their mistake, they should eat it. Besides, the govt doesn't care where the $$ comes from, as long as they get it!

[Chocaholic]

His mistake...you're liability. Go have coffee and agree to split it with him.

[ChrisBennet]

"Moral" isn't about what you can "get away with".
-Chris

[Gene Wilkes]

I totally agree! HIS MISTAKE! He made a profit or he wouldn't have sold it!!

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by many944s
Their mistake, they should eat it. Besides, the govt doesn't care where the $$ comes from, as long as they get it!

Not quite true, at least in FL. dealers are not Allowed to pay taxes.

[Joeaksa]

Three day rule. Tell him you can cancel the sale and he can have the car back if he is not happy with the way it went, otherwise work something out with him that you are happy with.

[Por_sha911]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Three day rule.

The law only applies when the salesman/company come to your location. It is not applicable when you go to the store, dealership...

[MRM]

It's a tax debt you owe. You just didn't factor it in to the initial paperwork because someone didn't include it. What's the deal with claiming you don't owe it? Why do you think it's moral to not pay it? It's not a moral question. It's a debt you owe. It may be owed to the public at large (meaning me and everyone else on this board) instead of a single living, breathing person. But ask yourself, does that make the debt any less owed? Why do you think they're not out of pocket? Do you have any idea how closely states audit dealors? It's your debt. Pay it.

[Dottore]

Originally posted by MRM
It's a tax debt you owe. You just didn't factor it in to the initial paperwork because someone didn't include it. What's the deal with claiming you don't owe it? Why do you think it's moral to not pay it? It's not a moral question. It's a debt you owe. It may be owed to the public at large (meaning me and everyone else on this board) instead of a single living, breathing person. But ask yourself, does that make the debt any less owed? Why do you think they're not out of pocket? Do you have any idea how closely states audit dealors? It's your debt. Pay it.

I guess I believe I pay far too much tax as it is - and when a little thing like this goes my way for change, I am inclined to take advantage of it.

Besides - I sincerely believe this will never show up anywhere - and if it does, they have my undertaking to pay.

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by Dottore
I guess I believe I pay far too much tax as it is - and when a little thing like this goes my way for change, I am inclined to take advantage of it.

Besides - I sincerely believe this will never show up anywhere - and if it does, they have my undertaking to pay.

Here in FL, if when you buy a used car, the price is less than what the state thinks, they send you a letter to either prove what you paid or pay the difference. Funny, gubmit is real good at not getting our money back to us, but if we are late

[Don Plumley]

The reality is you entered into a contract with the car dealer to buy a car. A final price was agreed, the contract signed, and goods exchanged for payment. The fact that the seller forgot to add a tax item into the total is their fault entirely. It's really no difference if they forgot to add in an option or simply didn't add right. A deal is a deal as some would say.

However, if the error was in the other direction, and you noticed they overcharged you $900, I imagine you'd be back in the dealer's office asking them to rectify the error.

So what to do? This is one of those, "what does the voice inside your head tell you to do?"

[Dottore]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Yet, you seem to support universal health care on the other thread.
-Wayne

That's not inconsistent. I think I pay too much tax AND I think my government spends my money foolishly.

[nostatic]

I got a check for $8 back from Miramar Audi because the DMV fees ended up being less than they charged me.

I also got a head of household audit letter from the state. They question taking my son as a deduction.

Win some, lose some.

[trekkor]

Originally posted by Dottore
I think I pay too much tax AND I think my government spends my money foolishly.

You always will and they always will.


KT

[Don Plumley]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
I don't think it works that way. The dealer is supposed to gather the funds for the state, acting as sort of an escrow agent. It's not something that they owe to the state, it's what the buyer owes.

Or think about it in the way Pelican collects sales tax for your CA state sales. If you undercharge because your shopping cart software accidental pulled the wrong variable, Pelican still owes the Board of Equalization the amount due based upon sales, not based upon what you actually collected. BTW, I follow your logic about the dealer acting as an agent for the state, because when you buy a used car, the buyer is responsible for remitting the proper sales tax to the DMV. But I propose the dealer failing to collect does not relieve the dealer of the obligation to remit.

[LeeH]

I thought the luxury tax had been repealed a few years ago. Is this a federal or local tax? Did you negotiate an "out the door" price or just the base price on the car? One advantage of focusing on the OTD price is that this sort of thing is their problem.

I'd look for clarification on this tax. In Arizona our "sales tax" is actually called Transaction Privilege Tax. While it's common for this tax to be passed on to the consumer, the law states it's a tax on the business for the privilige of doing business here. If the seller fails to collect the tax THEY are on the hook for the money whether or not it was collected from the customer.

I'd be careful as calling the customer after a sale and requesting more money for various reasons is a common car dealer scam.

[on2wheels52]

I wouldn't want to let morals get in the way of something as important as money, especially $900 worth.
Jim

[ChrisBennet]

Seriously, when I left, I joined the Army and took the service exam.
They found my psych results fit a certain
profile. A certain "Moral flexibility"
would be the best way to describe
it... I was loaned out to a CIA-
sponsored program. It's called
"mechanical operations." We sort of
found each other...

Martin in Grosse Point Blank explaining how he became an assassin.

[stomachmonkey]

If it were me and the dealer went along with "ignoring" a legal requirement that dealer would lose my business.

He has just proven he can not be trusted.

You owe $900. You should payit.