UFC as fake as pro wrestling!

[dennis in se pa]

I just watched a rerun of the Couture/Silvia heavyweight matchup which Couture "won". Silvia was paid to take a fall! So many times he could have nailed Couture good he did not, and a few opportunities for serious knees to the head and he did not do it!

Am I the only one who sees this?

And at one time the announcer was saying how everyone in the house was standing the camera was on the first few rows and everyone was sitting down. This is now a joke. I used to enjoy it.

[TerryBPP]

Originally Posted by dennis in se pa

I just watched a rerun of the Couture/Silvia heavyweight matchup which Couture "won". Silvia was paid to take a fall! So many times he could have nailed Couture good he did not, and a few opportunities for serious knees to the head and he did not do it!

Am I the only one who sees this?

And at one time the announcer was saying how everyone in the house was standing the camera was on the first few rows and everyone was sitting down. This is now a joke. I used to enjoy it.

Did you see Silvia's fight with Munson? Exactly the same, the guy is a beast with no skill or cardio. The fights he one were in the 1st consisting of 1 or 2 punches. He was no match for the marathon that Couture gave him.

[Jeff Higgins]

You guys sound surprised. When two guys that really know what they are doing, and are really motivated to hurt the other guy, really go after it... it's always over almost too fast to see what really happened. Very little spectator appeal. How many good, honest fights have you seen first hand? Street fights, bar fights, etc? I don't think I have ever seen one last more than a few really good blows. The human body can dish out far more than it can take. Now consider two very highly trained athletes. Yes, their bodies can take more than some fat old man like me. Their heads are the same, however. They could very easily inflict permanent harm to one another with the lack of gloves, lack of rules, etc.

Back when boxing was still a (more) ligitimate fight, why do you think there were (and still are) so many rules about where and how one can hit the other? It would be carnage without them. The rules are designed to protect the boxers from each other. If it were a real fight, absent those rules, there would be a lot of guys getting very seriously hurt. "Ultimate" fighting would like to convince us their competitors are tougher than that, and don't need those rules to protect them. Baloney. If it were truly the free for all they would like us to think it is, men in that kind of shape, with those skills, would be killing each other and the fights would be over in the blink of an eye.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Baloney. If it were truly the free for all they would like us to think it is, men in that kind of shape, with those skills, would be killing each other and the fights would be over in the blink of an eye.

I don't know - did you see that Stephan Bonnar/Forrest Griffin fight a couple of years ago? Those two guys beat the crap out of each other for 15 minutes or so. Even I was worn out when they were done

[TerryBPP]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

You guys sound surprised. When two guys that really know what they are doing, and are really motivated to hurt the other guy, really go after it... it's always over almost too fast to see what really happened. Very little spectator appeal. How many good, honest fights have you seen first hand? Street fights, bar fights, etc? I don't think I have ever seen one last more than a few really good blows. The human body can dish out far more than it can take. Now consider two very highly trained athletes. Yes, their bodies can take more than some fat old man like me. Their heads are the same, however. They could very easily inflict permanent harm to one another with the lack of gloves, lack of rules, etc.

Back when boxing was still a (more) ligitimate fight, why do you think there were (and still are) so many rules about where and how one can hit the other? It would be carnage without them. The rules are designed to protect the boxers from each other. If it were a real fight, absent those rules, there would be a lot of guys getting very seriously hurt. "Ultimate" fighting would like to convince us their competitors are tougher than that, and don't need those rules to protect them. Baloney. If it were truly the free for all they would like us to think it is, men in that kind of shape, with those skills, would be killing each other and the fights would be over in the blink of an eye.

Not sure the last time you saw UFC but the rules are very similar to boxing now. Gloves are worn (6 ounce I believe). No kick/kneeing on the ground, No eye gouges, bitting, all that jazz.

So you are telling me people don't have different pain thresholds? When I wrestled in highschool & college there were guys that could take all I could give them and guys that would wince at the slightest pressure (sounds kinda ghey). Boxing is based on the same tolerance. Either you have a steel jaw or glass.

Some fight are 10 sec instant knock outs:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5fcJ84GMTlo

Yeah, thats fake.

[serge944]

It's no surprise. Some fighters were paid off in the Pride series too, so that the crowd favorite wins.

[Jeff Higgins]

It's admittedly been awhile since I last watched. It's been since they were still allowed to knee to the head, etc. They wore some kind of very light fingerless gloves that looked more like cycling gloves, so they could grab, gouge, and all of that. It was pretty obvious then that they had to be holding back. Pain threshold doesn't really come into play when the head is jarred by a good solid knee, or punch, or kick. Hell, you are out so fast, it doesn't even hurt. It was also pretty obvious back then (at least a few years ago) that if two of those boys got really pissed at each other, some one was really going to get hurt. It sounds like they had to reign them in a bit. Probably much like when boxing had to do the same a hundred years ago. Still, a good, no-holds-barred, hell-bent-for-election fight, when two guys really mean it, is nothing like what you see even in Ultimate Fighting. It's amazing how fast two guys can mess each other up.

[DavidI]

As a full contact MMA fighter, I completely DISAGREE that the UFC is fake. Those fights are definitely real, and the results are true. Boxing/MMA gloves do more to protect the individual wearing the gloves than the opponent. The hands are susceptable to breaking much more easily than someone's head. Punching someone in the head is like punching a coconut.

The better physical fitness level a fighter has, the more punishment he can withstand. However, there are knockout points such as the jaw that are different depending upon the individual.

I personnaly know some of the fighters and can attest to the veracity of the sport. When the adrenaline subsides after the fight, the pain is debilitating. I can attest to this first-hand!

David

[TerryBPP]

Originally Posted by DavidI

As a full contact MMA fighter, I completely DISAGREE that the UFC is fake. Those fights are definitely real, and the results are true. Boxing/MMA gloves do more to protect the individual wearing the gloves than the opponent. The hands are susceptable to breaking much more easily than someone's head. Punching someone in the head is like punching a coconut.

The better physical fitness level a fighter has, the more punishment he can withstand. However, there are knockout points such as the jaw that are different depending upon the individual.

I personnaly know some of the fighters and can attest to the veracity of the sport. When the adrenaline subsides after the fight, the pain is debilitating. I can attest to this first-hand!

David

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I grew up with Seth Petruzelli from the UFC show. He didn't fair up to his talent but one of the nicest kids you will ever meet. I haven't talked to him in years. I believe he lives in Vegas now selling mortgages.

[Superman]

[QUOTE=Jeff Higgins;3397770]You guys sound surprised. When two guys that really know what they are doing, and are really motivated to hurt the other guy, really go after it... it's always over almost too fast to see what really happened. Very little spectator appeal. How many good, honest fights have you seen first hand? Street fights, bar fights, etc? I don't think I have ever seen one last more than a few really good blows. [QUOTE]


Yup. At least 90% of the brawls I've seen were over in thirty seconds. The ones that went longer than one minute.......were not interesting enough to keep me from returning to the pool table. You wanna know how to win a back alley brawl? Simple. Hit the other guy before he hits you, hit him in the face, and keep hitting him in the face until it's over. Just like in Chess, your first purely defensive move is the move that begins the end of the game.

[Jeff Higgins]

I did a fair amount of boxing as a kid (until I wised up...). It's the tape under the gloves, not the gloves themselves, that protect the hands. We would tape up (as do all boxers) for workouts on the heavy bag, and wear quite thin bag gloves over the top. The padding on the gloves, when in the ring, is there for one purpose and one purpose only - to protect whoever they hit. The fact that when I used to watch the UFC guys they were neither taped nor gloved like a boxer tells me there is no way on earth they were hitting as hard. No way. They would be breaking their own hands and each other's facial bones with appalling regularity. Sorry; I'm just not buying it. They are clearly pulling punches, much less kicks and elbows and knees to the head. Maybe they really connect to the body, but no man, regardless of physical condition, could take some of those shots to the head. Conditioning has nothing to do with that.

[the]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Maybe they really connect to the body, but no man, regardless of physical condition, could take some of those shots to the head. Conditioning has nothing to do with that.

I've not seen any MMA fighters survive any really hard shots to the head in the fights I've seen. They seem to be very good at defending the head. The times I've seen clean hard shots to the head, it's always been lights out.

I don't know, but from what I've seen, I don't think MMA is fake. I think it would be hard to be fake, given the indisputable amount of blood and impact that goes on. Seems like you can be 100% fake, like WWF wrestling, but it would be hard to be "10% fake, 90% real."

"OK Bobby, you're going to get your nose broken today, and 12 stitches in your face, but we want you to lose. So please punch back at 85% today. Thank you." seems tough to pull off.

[DavidI]

Jeff, you are partially correct regarding the tape. The tape is primarily used to protect the bones on the back of the hand and the wrist. The coaches usually wrap the hands in a compressed fashion to keep the bones from bending and snapping. There is very little attention paid to the actual knuckles themselves in the way of tape. Although they are covered with gauze and tape, it is a very thin layer.

For boxing gloves, there are several types. The puncher style, "Cleto Reyes," have little padding on the knuckles and are balanced to provide more wrist protection. There are several other brands that offer protection on the underside of the wrist which is primarily for defensive fighters who use this are to block.

Grappling/MMA gloves use extremely dense foam on the knuckles. It does little to protect the opponent, except from cuts. It is used for the striker to avoid cutting his own hand.

I do not believe for one instant that the higher level leagues such as UFC has fighters pulling punches. That is unless the fighter has already broken his hand. We will never truly know unless we step in the ring with these monsters. I fight competitively in boxing, kickboxing, Jiu Jitsu, wrestling, Kali, and MMA, however I am not in the same league as those UFC guys, David

[Super_Dave_D]

WHAT!!! Wrestling is fake?!!? MAN - all these years!!!!