And yet another method is to say fine, get me a replacement at your settlement amount. In my case, there were no 1/2 tons around at all.

Excellent advice - now THAT is a great negotiating tactic. I'd like to see them find a 951 that was as good as what I lost for less than $6k. Probably more like $7k.

P-o-P, Sorry to see such a loss. Looks like it was a nice car. We're glad you're OK.

On a darker note, I must admit I'm slightly amused by this. I never...never thought anyone could beat out Rock in terms of luck....:eek:

Read your contract. You will see you have no basis for using that as a negotiating tactic. They have no contractual obligation to find and buy a replacement car for you. They don't roll that way, in today's vernacular. All you'll get out of them is a laugh.

Point is, if they can't find a replacement (whether or not it's a deliverable item), the principle is most certainly solid. If they can't present a replacement for the amount they're offering, their offer is obviously bogus and therein lies its strength. It's not so much about "find me a car", it's about "prove your number isn't pulled out of your posterior". I'll be able to back my numbers, I'm not so sure they'll be able to back theirs.

Sure, they back their number quite easily. They don't pull a number out of their posterior, they open a book and pull the number right out of that.

That's good enough for them, and in the absence of any evidence that YOU can present to the contrary, it will be good enough for the judge.

Glad you're ok. And don't worry. You'll be able to build the next car cheaper, faster, and better with everything you learned from this one.

Oh, I'll have plenty of evidence to the contrary - already do (been digging up stuff all evening). The blue book is a load of garbage and everyone in the Porsche world knows it. Those numbers don't mean schit.

FWIW NADA's book (if they want to get picky over published figures by "experts" which are largely just made up to sell new cars and make more money for wealthy bankers, IMO) quotes my car as $8k-$10.5k retail. WAY more than the $3k or so I figure they'll "offer" me.

Insurance adjusters are slightly below whale schit on the bottom of the ocean and slightly above realtors in my book. It'll be quite fun to hand one's ass to him/her if they try to insult me with a lowball offer.

Nobody's looking for "cashing in" here, I'm only looking for what's fair, factoring in the insane insurance rates I pay in this state. The bull$hit I expect (based on numerous other horror stories I've heard) is just that - a bull$hit game played by *********s. They figure 99% of people won't bother or will be too chickenschit to fight. Not me. I do my homework, I intend to go in prepared and I'll get what I consider fair. I won't take a lowball offer, even if it means getting nothing immediately. I don't care. Worst case I tow it home and disassemble here, keeping what I can use and parting out what I can't. I know what I can make doing that, and it's more than the lousy number I expect to get quoted initially. If they try to bluff/bull$hit me, I'll call it and walk. No skin off my ass.

Just trying to help you focus on the right things to get the most for your car. Not sure why you seem so resistant.

To summarize:

1. Focus on any published price guides. If you have published guides that say $8-10K, that's great. Not sure if the Anderson price guides in excellence will be helpful or harmful to you, but if they are good, use them.

2. Appraisals are good, too, if you can get them. PCA used to do them for free, and they were usually quite high.

3. As part of their investigation, if it gets far, they will eventually do a market price check. You should do the same. Try the ads in Panorama, they are generally dreamers with overpriced cars, which is good. These days, they may check eBay completed sales, I'm not sure. For more current model cars, they usually check the newpaper classifieds. Find high asking price ads and put them together. Then you have to convince them your car is similar condition to the high value cars, and much better than the low priced junk in the ads they found. That's where any receipts for recent major work can be helpful.

You are correct that they are going to continue to bluff and BS you into trying to take a low number. Absolutely. But if you can find good stuff as shown above, you have a chance of coming out ok. If you have price guides showing $10K, a PCA appraisal showing $10K, multiple ads showing asking prices of $12K (the insurance co. will, correctly, point out that selling price is usually less than asking), etc., they will have a hard time sticking with something like $3K.

You might do ok. But the sad reality is this: It's a cost/benefit analysis for them. As long as they have some low level guy or gal yanking your chain, there is only upside for them, no potential downside. It's only when a lawyer gets involved that your claim gets moved upstairs and gets any serious attention, because the element of potential downside (legal costs and a truly possible lawsuit) is introduced.

Good luck.

(P.S. Regardless of what happens, do yourself a favor and use this as an opportunity to finally get a 911).

pretty true. hopefully, if you can stand your ground and do the due diligence on market value, it won't have to come to legal threats. know any lawyers who need some pro bono time? anyway, i haven't said it yet, but i'm sorry to see what happened to your car, jeff. best of luck in making the most of this unfortunate loss of your car. :(

Are you sure? My insurance agent has told me specifically that at least in NC, that is EXACTLY what the law requires.

Very good post.

D@mn Jeff, sorry to hear this. Have you figured out what caused this yet? (I have an '87 951 that I am about to put back on the road soon)

I would bet you could find one with a blown motor for parts and you could fix yours, then part out the rest for a profit. (lots of work, but probably very doable)

KBB and such exist because many (many, many, many) people think that when they total their 5-year old Honda Accord, they are entitled to a brand new Honda Accord--and not another 5-year old Accord. You are truly looking for "replacement value" Jeff, and as such, you shouldn't have a tough time with this.

Like I said, when my 'S' was totalled, I was offered $6,500. Considering that I don't think I could have found anything myself to back up that high a price, I accepted. I was asked about aftermarket parts, stereo, and major overhauls as part of the valuation. The buy-back I was offered was $500. The car never left my driveway and I had my check the next day.

My experience with smaller insurers has been very different. I was rear-ended by classmate in high school. Strangely, his insurance lapsed the day before the accident, and was reinstated the day after. I never saw a dime for the damage to my car. My mother also used to work for one of those "minimum coverage" insurers. The very first thing they would do if you filed a claim was to attempt to cancel the policy.

Sorry about your car...

When my 1990 C2 Targa was totalled - I did not wait for them to come up with a price - I did some market research - found some comparable cars (PCA and Rennlist, one on Autotrader) on my own that were for sale and forwarded them to my adjuster.

When they came back with a settlement - it was 2000 more than what I paid for the car two years prior.

That being said - how much for the 951 fuchs?

Thanks for all the good advice and words of encouragement guys. I really appreciate it.

For starters, I think the first thing to do is to get the car (what's left of it) out of storage and drag it back to my place. I'll then try to force it into my garage and wait for the appraisal to be done there - on MY terms, not theirs.

As I've said before, I expect this to rapidly turn into another shining example of what professional rip-off artists insurance companies are and turn into a lengthy, protracted fight. I have a number in my head that I think (based on research and estimates of other vehicles' sale prices, etc.) represents the fair market value of the car before it got destroyed. If by some miracle they see fit to meet that, fine and dandy, but I fully expect they won't and this will turn into a months-long ordeal.

I'll keep you all posted. Cutting out of work early to go pick up the carcass and get it home.

I guess you miss the point. The object of having comprehensive insurance is to ensure that you are covered for a loss, we can all agree on that. There is no reason for anyone to believe that one has to upgrade in order to continue on with life. If you are happy with a 951 or a 1/2 ton PU, then that's what you can shoot for.

I, for one, did not get a laugh when I told the adjuster that I could not find any transportation for the amount being offered. Now, that was not my only negotiating tool, just one of everything I could muster. I have USAA, I don't know what you have, "the".

So, I did not claim that they had any obligation to buy me a replacement, I just pointed out that a replacement at a low figure was impossible. I don't know why you feel compelled to post some of the posts you do. I know who my next ignore list member should be. I should have shut you up a long time ago (on my screen, that is).

And so it shall be.

Now you are changing your story. Now you are saying you only told your adjuster you couldn't find a replacement for the amount being offered.

Your original post didn't say that, it said: "And yet another method is to say fine, get me a replacement at your settlement amount."

That's a suggestion to Jeff to tell his insurance company to go out and find and get a replacement car for him, which is absurd.

No I have to disagree. I think it's perfectly acceptable to request (or demand) that they justify the legitimacy of their settlement number by using comparable vehicles. After all, that's the best indicator of "fair market value". If you can find similar vehicles that have sold for $X, that's a helluva lot more convincing to me than some B.S., made-up, fabricated number in a book that's really just made up to keep people buying new cars every 3-5 years by creating this artificial concept of "depreciation". I use published "book value" in buying a car as a guideline, but I certainly don't get hung up on it. Comparable sales are far more convincing and I think any judge would have to agree with that.

I've found several 951s similar to mine with selling prices ranging from $7k to $10k. I think that'll be pretty convincing.

Absolutely. That's exactly what I've told you over and over again.

But you won't have to request or demand them to do it. They'll get comparables on their own, particularly if you provide them with some.

I think there's a good chance you will be fine. You aren't looking to make a killing on this or anything, just get fair market, and the numbers you are talking about seem to be in the ballpark. Just get as much helpful data (book values, comparable sales and ads, and/or appraisals) as possible, and present it as clearly and concisely as possible.