Katrina: Two Years Later

[dhoward]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Anyone see the timely PBS documentary on Katrina last night?

It was very enlightening.

Much more so that the childish (and pointless) name calling going on here.

You're taking the fun out of it...

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by dhoward

You're taking the fun out of it...

POOPYHEAD!

[Mule]

I saw the History Channel's story.

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

This isn't about black & white people, but the type (color doesn't matter) that kept the poverty & crime rate high.



If you read, I stated that the people who owned, paid taxes ect, are the ones who should be funded. The state & local government used the Levy funds for other things. I hope that you are helping your 90 year old Grandmother, that is what families do, I lost mine a few years ago to cancer, and took time off from my work to take her to her cancer treatments, ect.

For god sakes you are wrong on so many levels I'm not sure where to start.

First, my comment about Nagin winning the white vote was in regards to the post that stated he had won because of the displaced residents getting to vote. Tha's not true.

The state and local government DOES NOT control the levee funds. The Fed along with the Army Corp of Engineers does, so you are wrong.

And while I would NEVER want to discount a family's struggle with cancer, you are fully discounting the reality of the situation family's face that have lost everything. Our willingness and need to help is far outweighed by the resources it would take to restore someones entire life earnings. This a helluva a lot bigger than rides to and from chemo.

So are you saying although they were responsible in every way, paid taxes and paid for flood insurance, that WE (meaning family) should be the one's responsible for fixing their lives?

Where's the Government's accountability?

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by Mule

You're showing your ignorance. The US Army Corp of Engineers built and maintained the levees.

Hmm, kinda proves my point

Money Flowed to Questionable Projects
State Leads in Army Corps Spending, but Millions Had Nothing to Do With Floods

By Michael Grunwald
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 8, 2005; Page A01

Before Hurricane Katrina breached a levee on the New Orleans Industrial Canal, the Army Corps of Engineers had already launched a $748 million construction project at that very location. But the project had nothing to do with flood control. The Corps was building a huge new lock for the canal, an effort to accommodate steadily increasing barge traffic.

Except that barge traffic on the canal has been steadily decreasing.



A soldier from the Army's 82nd Airborne Division helps evacuate Leroy Leaper, who decided to leave the Ninth Ward of New Orleans. Some residents of the ward vowed that they would not leave, even though much of the largely impoverished neighborhood remained underwater. Story, A18. (By Steven Senne -- Associated Press)

In Katrina's wake, Louisiana politicians and other critics have complained about paltry funding for the Army Corps in general and Louisiana projects in particular. But over the five years of President Bush's administration, Louisiana has received far more money for Corps civil works projects than any other state, about $1.9 billion; California was a distant second with less than $1.4 billion, even though its population is more than seven times as large.

Much of that Louisiana money was spent to try to keep low-lying New Orleans dry. But hundreds of millions of dollars have gone to unrelated water projects demanded by the state's congressional delegation and approved by the Corps, often after economic analyses that turned out to be inaccurate. Despite a series of independent investigations criticizing Army Corps construction projects as wasteful pork-barrel spending, Louisiana's representatives have kept bringing home the bacon.

For example, after a $194 million deepening project for the Port of Iberia flunked a Corps cost-benefit analysis, Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.) tucked language into an emergency Iraq spending bill ordering the agency to redo its calculations. The Corps also spends tens of millions of dollars a year dredging little-used waterways such as the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet, the Atchafalaya River and the Red River -- now known as the J. Bennett Johnston Waterway, in honor of the project's congressional godfather -- for barge traffic that is less than forecast.

The Industrial Canal lock is one of the agency's most controversial projects, sued by residents of a New Orleans low-income black neighborhood and cited by an alliance of environmentalists and taxpayer advocates as the fifth-worst current Corps boondoggle. In 1998, the Corps justified its plan to build a new lock -- rather than fix the old lock for a tiny fraction of the cost -- by predicting huge increases in use by barges traveling between the Port of New Orleans and the Mississippi River.

In fact, barge traffic on the canal had been plummeting since 1994, but the Corps left that data out of its study. And barges have continued to avoid the canal since the study was finished, even though they are visiting the port in increased numbers.

Pam Dashiell, president of the Holy Cross Neighborhood Association, remembers holding a protest against the lock four years ago -- right where the levee broke Aug. 30. Now she's holed up with her family in a St. Louis hotel, and her neighborhood is underwater. "Our politicians never cared half as much about protecting us as they cared about pork," Dashiell said.

Yesterday, congressional defenders of the Corps said they hoped the fallout from Hurricane Katrina would pave the way for billions of dollars of additional spending on water projects. Steve Ellis, a Corps critic with Taxpayers for Common Sense, called their push "the legislative equivalent of looting."

Louisiana's politicians have requested much more money for New Orleans hurricane protection than the Bush administration has proposed or Congress has provided. In the last budget bill, Louisiana's delegation requested $27.1 million for shoring up levees around Lake Pontchartrain, the full amount the Corps had declared as its "project capability." Bush suggested $3.9 million, and Congress agreed to spend $5.7 million.

Administration officials also dramatically scaled back a long-term project to restore Louisiana's disappearing coastal marshes, which once provided a measure of natural hurricane protection for New Orleans. They ordered the Corps to stop work on a $14 billion plan, and devise a $2 billion plan instead.

But overall, the Bush administration's funding requests for the key New Orleans flood-control projects for the past five years were slightly higher than the Clinton administration's for its past five years. Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, the chief of the Corps, has said that in any event, more money would not have prevented the drowning of the city, since its levees were designed to protect against a Category 3 storm, and the levees that failed were already completed projects. Strock has also said that the marsh-restoration project would not have done much to diminish Katrina's storm surge, which passed east of the coastal wetlands.

[Red Baron]

No, it further proves your ignorance on this subject along with you lack of reading comprehension skills.

Why don't you try posting what you are trying to prove in your own words and keep your google in your pants.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by Red Baron

No, it further proves your ignorance on this subject along with you lack of reading comprehension skills.

Why don't you try posting what you are trying to prove in your own words and keep your google in your pants.

You know, I'm sorry you are too worthless to help your granny out from a NATURAL DISASTER because you feel the government should wipe your ass, but, guess what, she knew she lived in a flood plane correct, after all NOLA is below see level, I moved from the beach when I was 19 living right across the street from the ocean because I was smart enough to know that one good storm & regular weather wouldn't be good on my cars. The Government did not make your granny stay there, they did not cause the storm, now be a man, quit whining like a baby and help your granny if she is so destitute!! Sell one of your 928s if you have too!! You still have your grandmother, mine is dead, BTW, I took close to a year and a half off to take care & help her (more than a few trips to the Dr. so don't tell me I don't know about loss. Things can be replaced. I am so glad that my father was so hard on me bringing me up not to expect others or the Government to take care of me!!!!

[rouxroux]

And without living down here, many fail to realize the corruption that has gone on with the "multiple levee boards"... I could talk for days about "drive-by inspections" and the "wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more" attitude of the levee board commissioners whose palms were greased often. Thank goodness we voted to do away with that stupid system. Positive change is coming to Louisiana, folks. You'll see the results starting after this fall's elections. I just hope the state has enough balls to give our new Governor a legislature that will be ready to work. As much as I hate to say it considering the personal losses of our family and others, Katrina was a form of "urban renewal". You don't hear the b!tching and moaning from the folks around Lake Charles or those along the Mississippi coastline, they as well are proud, self-reliant people. The pseudo-Mardi Gras "gimme something mister" mentality of N.O. is finally changing ( but sad to see the increased crime rates in places like Baton Rouge, Houston and Shreveport post-Katrina).

[Jims5543]

Having been through 3 storms now, and loosing my office, making wrong choices and loosing over 100K of my own money and now having a business that is barely open anymore due to the economic fallout from the storms, I can say if your waiting for government help your screwed.

That simple, if you need the US of A to help you out your done. I figured this out 24 hours after the 1st storm hit, I was on my own. Insurance companies, local government and the Federal Government were not going to help me.

when Katrina hit Miami en route to NO, did you see the news footage of all the people in line for ice and water THE VERY NEXT DAY? We knew for days the storm was coming, plenty of time to freeze up water bottles and ice trays and make as much ice as possible, as well as stockpile on necessities. Guess who was in line? The people too stupid to get ready for a storm. Do not tell me they could not afford to get ready, it does not take money to make ice and store water.


Same deal with the people crying they got screwed in NO, they got Debit Cards, temporary housing and a chance to get back on their feet, except they did not want to get on their feet, they wanted to stay on the government teat. That teat dried up and now they are crying foul.

They got a LOT more that I got from both my insurance and FEMA (I never even bothered to try FEMA to be honest) I know I could make it through on my own. I guess I am lucky because 7 years earier I started a business with a Visa card and no idea how I was going to pay my bills, 10 years later I was able to take a 100K+ hit and still survive. But, I am a fighter and I would never give up, even now as the economy here is in the toilet I am fighting to keep going and I know I will do fine. I am the master of my domain. I do not need anyone to help me, especially Government.


Its called personal pride some have it and do fine others do not and need help for their entire lives.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

Having been through 3 storms now, and loosing my office, making wrong choices and loosing over 100K of my own money and now having a business that is barely open anymore due to the economic fallout from the storms, I can say if your waiting for government help your screwed.

That simple, if you need the US of A to help you out your done. I figured this out 24 hours after the 1st storm hit, I was on my own. Insurance companies, local government and the Federal Government were not going to help me.

when Katrina hit Miami en route to NO, did you see the news footage of all the people in line for ice and water THE VERY NEXT DAY? We knew for days the storm was coming, plenty of time to freeze up water bottles and ice trays and make as much ice as possible, as well as stockpile on necessities. Guess who was in line? The people too stupid to get ready for a storm. Do not tell me they could not afford to get ready, it does not take money to make ice and store water.


Same deal with the people crying they got screwed in NO, they got Debit Cards, temporary housing and a chance to get back on their feet, except they did not want to get on their feet, they wanted to stay on the government teat. That teat dried up and now they are crying foul.

They got a LOT more that I got from both my insurance and FEMA (I never even bothered to try FEMA to be honest) I know I could make it through on my own. I guess I am lucky because 7 years earier I started a business with a Visa card and no idea how I was going to pay my bills, 10 years later I was able to take a 100K+ hit and still survive. But, I am a fighter and I would never give up, even now as the economy here is in the toilet I am fighting to keep going and I know I will do fine. I am the master of my domain. I do not need anyone to help me, especially Government.


Its called personal pride some have it and do fine others do not and need help for their entire lives.

Thanks Jim!!! A few years ago, when we had the back to back to back to back canes, two of my storaged were damaged, pretty much all the high $$$ stuff was wasted (big loss) and to make matters worse, an oak tree fell on my 911, but you didn't hear me whining about having the government replace everything nor did I file a claim (you know why) I just had to eat it. You are correct sir, personal pride, my father taught me that!! I spent time with my nieghbors going around and cutting up trees and placing tarps on friends homes that trees fell on, we didn't wait for the government to fix it for us

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Red Baron

For god sakes you are wrong on so many levels I'm not sure where to start.

First, my comment about Nagin winning the white vote was in regards to the post that stated he had won because of the displaced residents getting to vote. Tha's not true.

The state and local government DOES NOT control the levee funds. The Fed along with the Army Corp of Engineers does, so you are wrong.

And while I would NEVER want to discount a family's struggle with cancer, you are fully discounting the reality of the situation family's face that have lost everything. Our willingness and need to help is far outweighed by the resources it would take to restore someones entire life earnings. This a helluva a lot bigger than rides to and from chemo.

So are you saying although they were responsible in every way, paid taxes and paid for flood insurance, that WE (meaning family) should be the one's responsible for fixing their lives?

Where's the Government's accountability?

So you are saying Byron is wrong because he thinks you should be looking out for your grandparents or he is wrong because facing a terminal disease is as bad(worse if you ask me) as a house flooding?

If my grandmother were alive, and she had flood insurance on her flooded house, I would be making some things happen if she were still waiting on a check two years later, over and above going and getting her and taking her to where ever she was going to be living in the interim. At 90, she does not have a lot of years to waste, she needs to be set up somewhere, if she has nothing in New Orleans, why go back?

A lot of the houses flooded, if not most, should not have been built where they were in the first place. They have been doing the same thing in California for some time, building where they should not, and there will be a ton of homeless people when it floods.

Just because someone pays the fee, and you are going to increase the tax base, does not mean a building permit should be issued. Whom do you think they paid their property taxes to? I never made out a property tax payment to the feds, but they have that Napoleonic Code and Parishes instead of Counties, so what do I know about it.

You don't really have to be surprised about crime going up along I-10 between the Crescent and Bayou Cities.
So Byron, the 911 the tree fell on was hot or something?

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by Tobra

So you are saying Byron is wrong because he thinks you should be looking out for your grandparents or he is wrong because facing a terminal disease is as bad(worse if you ask me) as a house flooding?

If my grandmother were alive, and she had flood insurance on her flooded house, I would be making some things happen if she were still waiting on a check two years later, over and above going and getting her and taking her to where ever she was going to be living in the interim. At 90, she does not have a lot of years to waste, she needs to be set up somewhere, if she has nothing in New Orleans, why go back?

A lot of the houses flooded, if not most, should not have been built where they were in the first place. They have been doing the same thing in California for some time, building where they should not, and there will be a ton of homeless people when it floods.

Just because someone pays the fee, and you are going to increase the tax base, does not mean a building permit should be issued. Whom do you think they paid their property taxes to? I never made out a property tax payment to the feds, but they have that Napoleonic Code and Parishes instead of Counties, so what do I know about it.

You don't really have to be surprised about crime going up along I-10 between the Crescent and Bayou Cities.
So Byron, the 911 the tree fell on was hot or something?

No, I just have only so much room, and was blocked in my another boo-boo, so I couldn't move it. Worst thing is, it should have been the safest from my trees

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by Tobra

So you are saying Byron is wrong because he thinks you should be looking out for your grandparents or he is wrong because facing a terminal disease is as bad(worse if you ask me) as a house flooding?

?

No, that's not what I said.

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

You know, I'm sorry you are too worthless to help your granny out from a NATURAL DISASTER because you feel the government should wipe your ass, but, guess what, she knew she lived in a flood plane correct, after all NOLA is below see level, I moved from the beach when I was 19 living right across the street from the ocean because I was smart enough to know that one good storm & regular weather wouldn't be good on my cars. The Government did not make your granny stay there, they did not cause the storm, now be a man, quit whining like a baby and help your granny if she is so destitute!! Sell one of your 928s if you have too!! You still have your grandmother, mine is dead, BTW, I took close to a year and a half off to take care & help her (more than a few trips to the Dr. so don't tell me I don't know about loss. Things can be replaced. I am so glad that my father was so hard on me bringing me up not to expect others or the Government to take care of me!!!!

***** YOU!
Your the one whining like you have been the first person to care fore a cancer ridden loved one that dies. Been there done that too.

Obviously there is no having a conversation with you since you want to resort to attacking and making false accusations.

I have helped and still am helping, and I never said the government should give them a handout.

I wasn't whining, I was trying to have a discussion about the situation that is now the Nations issue, and that is when insurance companies are allowed to collect premiums for 40 years and then not pay for damages when they occur. OUR Gov. is allowing it to happen.
I really have nothing left to say to you because your a god damn tough acting idiot that has no clue, and in reality you are likely a pussy just like your redneck father.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Hmm, kinda proves my point

Not so much. It proves that you don't understand what you posted. It's the US Govt. numbnuts. Not the LA govt.

If you still dont get it try re-reading the previous statement 8 or 10 times & even with your meager comprehension skills it should help.

[Mule]

Where do you 2 idiots get off saying Abby didn't help his grand parents? You wouldn't know Abby or his grandparents if they were standing in front of you and these assumptions have you looking like absolute buffoons. He said nothing of the sort. What he did say was that someone 90 years old who had been paying ins companies for over 70 years shouldnt get hosed. Maybe you disagree. If so, I hope something similar happens to someone close to you soon.

Does this make you feel superior? Or manly or what?

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by Red Baron

And while I would NEVER want to discount a family's struggle with cancer, you are fully discounting the reality of the situation family's face that have lost everything.

Where's the Government's accountability?

As I posted it, I never made light of someone dealing with cancer. On the other hand though, you azzholes sure made it out like I had.

I've been in your shoes (dealing with cancer ridden loved one) have you been in mine?

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Thanks Jim!!! A few years ago, when we had the back to back to back to back canes, two of my storaged were damaged, pretty much all the high $$$ stuff was wasted (big loss) and to make matters worse, an oak tree fell on my 911, but you didn't hear me whining about having the government replace everything nor did I file a claim (you know why) I just had to eat it. You are correct sir, personal pride, my father taught me that!! I spent time with my nieghbors going around and cutting up trees and placing tarps on friends homes that trees fell on, we didn't wait for the government to fix it for us

Newsflash, Racerbvd qualifies as "Real American Hero." You survived not one but two hurricanes and didn't ask the govt to replace your 911. What a tru he man you must be. I bet had you been in Katrina, you wouldn't have even taken a bottled water from the govt. A real he man like you could have probably survived drinking his own urine. You cut up trees? Wow nobody did that here. You put a tarp on a roof? What a man you are. Nobody did that here either.

Are you really this stupid? I'm thinking some intelligence must surface soon but it looks like not. I hope you are at least smart enough to realize how much of a buffoon your statement points you out to be. That way you won't continue to make a fool of yourself

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

Having been through 3 storms now, and loosing my office, making wrong choices and loosing over 100K of my own money and now having a business that is barely open anymore due to the economic fallout from the storms, I can say if your waiting for government help your screwed.

That simple, if you need the US of A to help you out your done. I figured this out 24 hours after the 1st storm hit, I was on my own. Insurance companies, local government and the Federal Government were not going to help me.

when Katrina hit Miami en route to NO, did you see the news footage of all the people in line for ice and water THE VERY NEXT DAY? We knew for days the storm was coming, plenty of time to freeze up water bottles and ice trays and make as much ice as possible, as well as stockpile on necessities. Guess who was in line? The people too stupid to get ready for a storm. Do not tell me they could not afford to get ready, it does not take money to make ice and store water.


Same deal with the people crying they got screwed in NO, they got Debit Cards, temporary housing and a chance to get back on their feet, except they did not want to get on their feet, they wanted to stay on the government teat. That teat dried up and now they are crying foul.

They got a LOT more that I got from both my insurance and FEMA (I never even bothered to try FEMA to be honest) I know I could make it through on my own. I guess I am lucky because 7 years earier I started a business with a Visa card and no idea how I was going to pay my bills, 10 years later I was able to take a 100K+ hit and still survive. But, I am a fighter and I would never give up, even now as the economy here is in the toilet I am fighting to keep going and I know I will do fine. I am the master of my domain. I do not need anyone to help me, especially Government.


Its called personal pride some have it and do fine others do not and need help for their entire lives.

Jim, first if you want to try & equate what Katrina did to ANY hurricane that hit Fl, think again. Were you unable to return to your home or business for almost 3 months. I don't think so. In fact I know better.

Second,
Nobody here is saying the ghetto dwellers should be re-installed and fully funded. Let me say it again 'cause some people here seem to have a problem getting this point. Nobody here is saying the ghetto dwellers should be re-installed and fully funded

Third
You should be proud of your accomplishments Jim. And it sounds like you are. You sound energetic, resourceful and driven. All commendable qualities. Do you think that if for reasons of health or age, someone less capable than you should be abused by insurance companies or the govt?

See cause that's the point here. There are many stories here, some even more heart wrenching than Racerbvd's, as hard as that may be to believe. The people who make this city work should not be hosed by the govt or insurance companies. That same statement goes for any other city. The greatest natural disaster in the history of America has exaggerated this point. But if you guys cant see that, I guess you just cant.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by Mule

Jim, first if you want to try & equate what Katrina did to ANY hurricane that hit Fl, think again. Were you unable to return to your home or business for almost 3 months. I don't think so. In fact I know better.

See cause that's the point here. There are many stories here, some even more heart wrenching than Racerbvd's, as hard as that may be to believe. The people who make this city work should not be hosed by the govt or insurance companies. That same statement goes for any other city. The greatest natural disaster in the history of America has exaggerated this point. But if you guys cant see that, I guess you just cant.

I am not belittling what happened in NO at all. My point is that if you are depending on the Gov't and or Insurance companies to help you, your screwed.

The sooner the folks from NO realize they need to take care of themselves the better off they will be. Churches are probably doing a better job taking care of folks than any government agency could ever dream of.