How Can I tell if Some One Faked My 911 T?
 

All this talk of counterfeiting cars is starting to worry me. How do I know my '72 T is genuine? How do I know it didn't start out as a Gremlin, or a Pinto, or something less valuable? I don't want to have to pop the windshield out to verify its authenticity (it rains a lot here), so what are some obvious things to look for? Thanks in advance; any help will be greatly appreciated. And before it even starts, keep your smart-ass replies to yourselves. I'm serious about this and need your help. I hate to think I was taken by some unscrupulous con-man.

Does it have four tires, excluding the spare?

i get jokes.......


T$

It's probably really an RS.

Best,

Kurt :)

Jeff, it probably DID start out as an RS, then the plates changed over to a Covin re-body.;)

Sorry man, it's worthless. I'll take it off your hands for a grand. :p

Because of the MFI?

I'm sure you can get it back to it's VW bugness ... if you want originality.

Not funny. I parked my SC in the sun one day (guys - never do this, not a good idea) and it turned out to be a fake. I took it to my mechanic to have it's authenticity checked and it turned out to be made from ice cream.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189315152.jpg

Will give you $2,000 for it...

A grand sounds fair, but maybe offer him some terms.

I'm with Jeff, I'd much rather deal with con-men that have scruples.
Jim

911 T? Doesn't sound like a real 911 to me but more like some made up designation by the dealer. Does is have a Landau roof package with lights on the C-pillars?

Easy to tell, get under it. If it does not have the "T"urbo in it its a fake 911T :D

I'll help ease the pain and offer you $3000.......

This is a real 1972 911T

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189392280.jpg

Jeff,

Unlike the guys on this site, I'm very much a beginner on the learning curve, but I'll try to help you out here... To begin with, it is essentially impossible to "fake" a 911T beginning with anything other than a 911 or 912... not a pinto, gremlin, a kit car etc.

The T models were far more common than the S or lofty RS models. If someone were planning to do a dirty deed, they would start with a T model and make it into an S or RS. Please do not take this as an insult, it's not meant that way, I'd LOVE TO own a 72 911 T!!! Fact remains (reference Red Book) that there were some 7,000 T's, about 2000 E's and a little under 2000 S's. Based just on that, it would behoof the criminally minded to start with a less expensive T and "build up" to a more expensive model.

The side-mounted oil tank can be faked, but it requires a good body man to hide the deed. The oil tank is unique to that year only and is $$$. In 1972, the US "T" has MFI, an expensive proposition to procure outright to "fake" a car. The T was 140 hp, the E was 165 and the S was 190 (reference Red Book).

The 5th digit of your serial # for a 911T should be a 1 (with MFI) or a 5 with carbs - non-US car again, reference Red Book - love that thing. I believe 911's, like pretty much all cars out there, have a public and at least one hidden VIN. The public VIN is the visible one - I believe windshield on a 72, I don't recall off-hand where the hidden one is at.

That said, Jeff, enjoy one of Porsche's most collectable and appreciating cars, a longhood MFI 911.

angela

Thanks, Angela. You seem to be the only one taking me seriously about this. I appreciate the help and kind words.

I brought the car down to the Kirkland Concours d'Elegance today and put it in with the rest of the Porsches. I was hoping the knowledgeable, experienced judges present at such an event would be able to put my mind at ease. They pretty much all agreed it must be an authentic '72 "T", and they didn't even have to look for the secret VIN. Mine's the blue one with the Pegasus on the fender:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189396377.jpg

That's no "T".

You've been had, I think.

you got termites in your front bumper?

Hey Jeff, why do you have two gas caps? I see the one in the front, buy why have one in the back? By the way, nice Porch!

I've seen it run.......I say cash in your chips and sell it as a Pinto!!!!!!!!!!

As stated above, T stands for Turbo, and they use a lot of gas so Porsche put in 2 gas tanks so owners wouldn't have to stop and fill up all the time. The additional benefit today is that with both tanks full, the value of the car is nearly doubled.:D

Is Mr Jeffy making jest of Mr Pest with this Thread? I am begining to like him even if he is an arrogant twit. After all he isn't stupid like U make him out to be, he does have enough functioning brain cells to recognize that I am "Amazing."

Nice car Jeff!

angela

If you don't have a turbo it's clearly not a real T.

Jeff has three turbos in the family, of course his "T," which goes without saying, and two Bugs. Ask him about his turbo Bug that was painted a couple years ago.

Well, if it has a turbo, then it's probably correct, but T also stands for Targa. The only way to know for sure is to take it out and see if you can hit 140. If the Targa doesn't add about 20 MPH then there's a good chance there's fakery involved.

Jeff,

I'm sorry to confuse you, but your car appears to be a 72' R Gruppe car. You can tell this by looking closely at the top of the front windscreen. See the letters there? Still, that doesn't mean someone didn't use a T chasis, or part of a T chasis to make the R Gruppe car.

There are other ways, apart from removing the dash, to find out if there is an original 911T hiding under an R gruppe facade. There are some real experts here and they'd be mighty happy to sort this mess out for you.

Oh, one thing, please check your engine bay (that's in the back) to see if you have a six cylinder motor in there. If you find a radiator somewhere in your car, your problems just multiplied.

I know how frustrating this can be, I've been there. I thought I was buying an original 72T several years ago. Come to find out the 2.4 MFI was replaced by a 2,2S MFI. As you can imagine I was in shock!!! _NO MATCHING "T" NUMBERS. WTF?

Additionally, where I expected to find original T brake lines, I found steel braided lines from an S car.

Under no circumstances put gas in the rear filler door. The MFI system already does this for you, by dumping generous amounts of fuel into the engine and it slides past the rings.

I'm certainly no expert, so others (simple or otherwise) please chime in.

What Jeff didn't tell you was that he did weld up the targa top to save weight.

I am pretty sure "T" stands for Targa and not Turbo. I will have to check my references but I don't believe Porsche made a Turbo in 1972. Either way your car is not a "T". It is obviosly a coupe. Unless someone welded a roof on at some point. Try peeling the interior up around the A pillars and see if you see any evidence of welding.

I'm starting to feel bad for the guy,

Jeff,
Go to the technical section if you want a real answer. You'll never get a serious answer here in the OT section.

Bump!http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/sad2.gif

T stands for Thunderbird. Try the Ford forum. :D






I truly hope you are taking us for a ride, Jeff. Otherwise sorry for joking.

Jeff,

I just did a search for faking T's. Unfortunately I couldn't find what I was looking for. What am I doing wrong?


I thought there would be several posts detailing this kind of T faking activity, but all I found was this posting by Mule the other day.


Sorry to disappoint you.


Fake "T"


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189452595.jpg

Doug, I understand if you lift those up the real VIN can be found underneath. Plus, I hear there is a secret one that may take a little more investigation to uncover. Care, diligence, and attention to detail certainly have their rewards under such conditions. It may take days of careful looking.

Have you checked the radiator serial number?

Also, are you still running the original spark plug wires? If not, the value will be about half of what you think it is worth. I think the highest bid so far was $3,000, which would really make your car worth about $1,500 (if that much.)

The "T" is for T-top. Original 911 with intact T's are hard to find after the popular Trans-Am roof swap...

T stands for Terrible, which is why Terry Tate has one

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Does it have Corinthian leather? If not, you got hosed.

So I've been doing a little more investigation, armed with the information you all have provided. I'm getting suspicious again. For one thing, it's certainly no turbo. That much is obvious, even to me. I have a '70 Bug that is, so I know the difference. Here is a shot of my Bug, showing very clearly that it is, in fact, a turbo. My 911 "T" does not have this, so I'm quite sure it is not:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189467536.jpg

After this unsettling comparison, I went to the front of the car and popped the trunk. Granted, I'm no expert on old 911 VIN's, but this is what I found. I do remember questioning this with the P.O., but he assured me it was characteristic of the "hand-built" nature of the early cars. At the time, I thought it added to the car's "charm". Now I'm not so sure. I don't even think it's a '72 VIN. At least it's blue, so I thought that was kind of important, since the car is blue. Maybe not... I'm getting worried again...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1189467864.jpg

nice comeback... :D