Superman, why is it that you believe the public's demands for services trump the public's demands for lower taxes?

Very well said.

Aside from road repair I cannot think of another instance of the public clamoring for more government action.

I'll give an example of how it's impossible to kill a gov't. program. The U.S. Census Bureau (we've all heard of it) has a job to do about every 10 yrs. Obviously, they don't keep those door-door census takers on staff in between the big ones. You'd think this stuff only needs funding for about two years every eight years or so. Wrong. The Census Bureau has carved out a niche for itself in the fed. bureaucracy and seeks to keep itself in the news as much as possible between big censuses. They are a huge client of my company and they regularly put out (and pay big money to do so) press releases on people's favorite ice cream flavors, dog breeds, car sizes, you name it. Sometime this nonsense is even broken down by race or ethnicity. Now, do we really need to know what Peruvian Americans prefer in their ice cream, how often they eat it in a year and where they buy it? I didn't think so. Yet, the Census Bureau looks for any possible way to keep itself employed when it's not needed at all. And they get plenty of our tax dollars to do this. But they are a very tiny example. As Don Nickles said, "There are three parts to every government program - a beginning, a middle and no end."

Yep, if a county decides to build a bridge the must first create and staff a new department of bridges. Once the bridge is finished you now have a legacy staff intent on it's own survival. It's human nature.

Too many snouts at the trough. Time to slaughter some hogs.

I'm still trying to verify a rumor that our former governor John Engler (R) signed a 300 year no contest exclusive contract to his brother-in-law to repair and maintain the state's roads.

Would go a long way to explaining why they fall apart before they are even finished.

Exactly. Beyond the most basic and essential of services, there really is NO provision for most of what government does. It has become bloated, irresponsible, unaccountable to anyone and WAY out of control with regards to spending O.P.M. (Other Peoples' Money). Enough already. When I say we could probably get by with 10% of current government spending levels and services, I mean it. It would also have the (intended) consequence of making people dig around to fill "gaps" in services by thinking and acting for themselves. It'd also have the (intended) consequence of being a huge jobs creator and opportunity for that great old-fashioned American institution - entrepreneurship - to come forward and do its magic.

Speaking only for federal governmental responsibility, our Constitution states:

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Based on this, the charge of government is:
1. unification of the states (i.e. creation of a central federal government)
2. establish justice (create & maintain courts & police/law enforcement)
3. insure domestic tranquility - promote peace, ties into #2
4. provide for the common defense (maintain a standing military capable of DEFENDING the country, not invading anyone we damn well please and setting up military bases in half the nations on earth)
5. promote the GENERAL welfare - in other words, generalized policies that promote the quality of life of the overall citizenry. This is NOT to be misinterpreted (as it often is) as the establishment of certain "handout" programs.

I see very few other charges than this to the federal government. Mostly it has to do with keeping the states reasonably unified and protected. Certainly nothing to the level of idiotic bureaucracy as we see today.

>>>>I would be willing to bet that the most avid cost cutting prospective politician is surprised at the reality of the fiscal situation once they are in the position to make the decisions.

Reality bites. <<<<<

Then why not implement the Mackinac Center plan? $1.9 BILLION saved from cuts that most people would not even knew happened. $422 MILLION alone saved by reorganizing the corrupt teacher's union health care program - unfortunately, it's POLITICALLY untouchable.

And Kach, keep your eye on the target. Don't worry about what Engler did or didn't do in the past. It would be like raising the issue of Granholm's fantasy budget in her re-election year to make everyone think things were turning around .... now a year later she's shutting the lights out. It doesn't matter. We need to look forward to sound ideas, not backwards to blame. All we're getting from Lansing (from BOTH parties!) is more of the same that got us here in the first place.

I noticed that the supposed $1.9 Billion cost-cutting plan appears to include reaching into the pockets of public servants. Sure, that's easy. Just cut wages and benefits for gubmit workers. Yeah, that will improve service. Next time your basement is flooded because the stormwater drain system is plugged......I guess you won't mind if it takes a couple of weeks for a not-so-smart and not-so-motivated guy with poor equipment comes out to tell you it will take a few more weeks to plan how to resolve the problem.

Aside from POP, it looks as if most of us expect and want certain services. I've got an idea. If those services are so deplorably mismanaged, then how 'bout if we find some good managers. Do your local public agencies get good managers when they collect resumes based on an ad that offers $28K and a requirement to work weekends and holidays? You wanna get good management? How does the private sector do this? And as you scream for lower pay for teachers and other public servants and badmouth their efforts, are you expecting to also increase the quality of services you get from them. Next time you need a police officer, first hand him an example of some of the remarks you've made here.

>>>>"cost-cutting plan appears to include reaching into the pockets of public servants"<<<<

You don't show the same concern for the private sector who have already given up benefits and for the private employers who have incurred astronomical increases in expenses over the past 5 years. Isn't it about time the government workers did their fair share too?

I was just reading an eMail from my accountants (a large Michigan firm) who are basically as bewildered as everyone else in regard to the details of this so-called budget. It is so vague there is already talk of a lawsuit to put the brakes on it. It is truly one of the most convoluted pieces of legislation in quite some time. A few examples from the Bizzaro World formerly known as Michigan:

Exempt from tax:

Lawyers
Accountants
Sports Tickets
Marinas
Cable/Satellite TV
Golf Courses
Bowling Alleys
Haircuts


Subject to Tax:

Consultants (talk about vague!)
Design Services (huh?)
Ski Resorts
Escort Services (that's a bit surprising coming from Lansing :confused: )
Armored Cars (there won't be any need for those in Michigan, why bother?)
Fortune Telling
Dating Services
Singing Telegrams
Coin-Operated Blood Pressure Machines (now there's a Michigan business with a bright future .... :rolleyes: )
Baby-Shoe Bronzing (I ain't making this ***** up - this is right from the legislation)
Shoe Shines

This is what our lobbyists ..... er, politicians have spent months putting together to save the State. :cool:

Some posts show that the philosophy of Fastpat is alive and well. We should all prepare to provide all the basic services for ourselves. Might make mail delivery a bit dicy....lots of travel involved. Police.....Fire.....EMT.....Snow removal......Did anyone mention the sad condition of our basic infrastructures? I seem to recall a recent bridge failure and the report showing how many other bridges are deemed inadequate...Of course, certain places like Alaska will be getting a new bridge.....Educate your own kids....Only requires a minmum amount of time per day for about 12 years or more....

Criticism of the system but no real soutions forwarded by those who criticize the most.

I did some engineering/cost consulting on projects not only in the public sector but in the private sector as well. One large complany in upstate New York had more goldbricks than any public organization I ever had the pleasure to work with. This company was a manufacurer of photographic products. Their main product (film) came off the machines in 36" wide rolls. The first slice of 35mm film off that roll paid for all the production/overhead costs. Talk about a profit margin!! IN their R&E unit, there was one "expert" who made thermocouples. His work took up about 4 hours per week. The rest of the time he spent sleeping; a foam rubber pillow duct taped to his chair back. But what the heck...it was a Military project so who cares? Where is that company now? Down from 60,000+ employees in the 60s to under 15,000 now. Complacency did them in, as it has for so many companies.

What happened to industries like steel? After WWII the steel mills in Europe and Japan were virtually non existent and had to be rebuilt with the latest technology. Here in the US the bottom line and return t investors trumped modernization. You do not need me to tell you what happened, and why Cities like Youngstown and Gary are literally ghost towns.

Don't blame it all on Government, either federal or local. They own a lot of the responsibility for the mess, but so do private industries as well. The so-called necessary services are still required, and in some states like Michigan have lost a lot of its industrial tax base and yet the citzens still want the garbage picked up, etc. So one must ask himself: Where will that money come from, espeially since local govts cannot adopt an unbalanced (read underfunded) budget?

Answer that and you might be on the track of a solution.

Privatization would fix a LOT of that. The power of the free market is greater than that of any government, including a totalitarian one.

You think people would travel across crumbling roads or bridges or live in areas known for poor protection? Hardly.

It also has the incentive of forcing people to DO THEIR HOMEWORK for themselves - not rely on some nanny-state to spoon feed them everything and supposedly to know what's best for us.

Keep this up Jeff, and you're going to have to move from California...

Privatization? Like Blackwater? Good call!!!! Mercenaries!!!

Eliminates the need for an armed force that is controlled by the United States Military Code.

Why didn't I think of that?

Ahh, are you a "truthseeker" Bob?:)

At l;east someone will kill the bastards!!! Good for them!!!

It is easy to just blame one politician for Michigan's latest tax increase. In Fact here is the crew that supported recent act 418.

The following voted YES to support 418 – 56 yes votes

Dan Acciavatti (R-32) Fran Amos (R-43)
Bruce Caswell (R-58) Richard Ball (R-85)
Darwin Booher (R-102) Brian Calley (R-87)
Tom Casperson (R-108) Bill Caul (R-99)
Paul Condino (D-35) Andy Dillon (D-17)
George Cushingberry (D-8) Craig DeRoche (R-38)
Kevin Elsenheimer (R-105) Judy Emmons (R-70)
Ed Gaffney (R-1) John Garfield (R-45)
Kevin Green (R-77) Martin Griffin (D-64)
Richard Hammel (D-48) Goeff Hansen (R-100)
Dave Hildenbrand (R-86) Jack Hoogendyk (R-61)
Kenneth Horn (R-94) Bill Huizenga (R-90)
Joe Hune (R-47) Rick Jones (R-71)
Marty Knollenberg (R-41) Phil LaJoy (R-21)
David Law (R-39) James Marleau (R-46)
Arlan Meekhof (R-89) Kim Meltzer (R-33)
John Moolenaar (R-98) Chuck Moss (R-40)
Neal Nitz (R-78) Paul Opsommer (R-93)
Brian Palmer (R-36) David Palsrok (R-101)
John Pastor (R-19) Phil Pavlov (R-81)
Tom Pearce (R-73) John Proos (R-79)
Dave Robertson (R-51) Tonya Schuitmaker (R-80)
Rick Shaffer (R-59) Fulton Sheen (R-88)
Alma Wheeler Smith (D-54) Virgil Smith D-7)
John Stahl (R-82) John Stakoe (R-44)
Glenn Steil (R-72) Steve Tobocman(D-12)
Howard Walker (R-104) Chris Ward (R-66)

His policies are gone, but the back alley deals made haunt us today.

Aint that the TRUTH!