One final item regarding our 'idiot' - the new $45 million Michigan State Police Headquarters building recently given the green-light by Granholm. They currently lease space at a nominal fee from Michigan State University. They have for many years. The police are not asking for a move. But Granholm entered into a no-bid contract to purchase land from Joel Ferguson - an MSU Trustee and a GIGANTIC contributor to Granholm's campaign and pet-projects.

So even though our budget is the worst it has ever been, money can still be found to reward campaign donors with lucrative government contracts on unneeded projects. When does it get to a point where the citizens demand better of elected leaders?

Red pork. Blue pork. It all ends up in the lunchloaf anyways.

Didn't hear a single peep when Bush was playing with a lot more zero's. So are you gonna sprearhead the Haliburton investigaion?
Detroit still can't make a 40mpg car.

The EV should have been crushed upon introduction, yet MI let them proceed. I am an EE and LIKE electric stuff, but I can see a con when it presents itself. MI is the last state that anyone should ever move to, let alone visit. I was stupid enough to commute there for over a year from the low tax state of Commiefornia. I decided that even Commiefornia was a better bet than MI. At least the weather is better and the govt cannot change that.

Government is exceedingly good at only two things - spending other peoples' money needlessly and passing more laws in order to collect other peoples' money in order to spend it needlessly.

10% of present day regulation, oversight, bloated bureaucracy and spending on stupid programs that constantly rationalize their own existence and importance (like the census diatribe from a page or two ago). 10%. That seems about right to me. Who cares about census data? We don't need it beyond the 10-year aggregate information required by Amendment. I don't need a 2,000-page analysis to tell me which way the wind is blowing. The example of China was hilarious to me - oh China is SO backwards because their census information isn't as over-analyzed as ours. Funny - last I checked, their country seemed to be humming along just fine and their government had a pretty good handle on what was going on in their borders. Try again.

Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. Like a chainsaw in a forest of deadwood. Cut. That's the solution. Most "government services" can be done by the private sector better and more efficiently. Those few that can't (police, courts, etc.) can learn to be much more efficient and streamlined. Start running government like a SMALL business rather than a large business with rooms full of suits attending pre-meeting meetings about last week's meeting and you'll actually see some improvement.

Time to bring out the hatchet. The big one.

John. Don't you find the ignorance here to be barely believable? You laid out the brute fact, including details, that America's economic success is largely due to our robust and reliable information system, demonstrating specific and accurate knowledge of the structure and ongoing efforts of our data collection system and whatddya get?

WITCH! BURN HIM! HE'S A WITCH!

Ten percent. Really, really ignorant. Guys, I'm not saying this to be unkind or dramatic. This 10% suggestion is not a longshot gamble. It's laughable. You apparently have no idea what would be involved. No concept.

lol, "America's economic success is largely due to our robust and reliable information system"

Implying the census bureau plays a large part in any of that caused me to piss myself a little:D

Companies can and do employ research companies when such data is required. I seriously hope you were kidding.

Certainly a tracking of basic economic indicators is useful for our markets, but we are not talking basics here.

I have a crazy feeling that Superman considers just about anyone who disagrees with him (and that's a LOT of people) to be ignorant. I rarely think someone's ignorant. They're just wrong.

"Red pork. Blue pork. It all ends up in the lunchloaf anyways.

Didn't hear a single peep when Bush was playing with a lot more zero's. So are you gonna sprearhead the Haliburton investigaion?
Detroit still can't make a 40mpg car."

Why does everything eventually get blamed on Bush? :confused:

We're talking about Michigan and it's current Governor. We've been in a single-state recession for her entire 6 year term in office and are approaching depression levels. Granholm has zero leadership ability whatsoever - that's not a red/blue issue. The rest of the legislature - red & blue, are just as bad. This has been coming for 6 F'king years and the best idea these idiots in Lansing can come up with is a tax increase? It's comical.

Oh. And as bad as things are here economically, Michigan is truly one of the most beautiful States in the US (and I've been to most of them). That's what makes this even more frustrating. SmileWavy

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1191615231.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1191615266.jpg

Nice pics Curt, I've been to nearly every corner of this country and the world, but still haven't been north of Mackinaw yet (btw: pronounced Mackinaw or Mackinac?).

Totally agree, but I'm pretty 'ignant on the recent economic/political history here (and to define the carry-over from Englers past deficits) to make an opinionated or educated statement.
-I do know that the Democratic Govenor decided to "announce" to the public the budget crisis way too late in the game to be given any iota of legitimacy. It's like the capitain of the ship announcing "ladys and gentlemen, the Titanic has struck an iceberg but don't worry I'm working on it."
Her job is chess, not pacman.
-I do know that the Democratic mayor of Detroit screwed up a deal to turn the ports into a giant railway distribution network hub, privatized or not.

Udder dan dat, I aint know sheet.

Private companies cannot gather much of the data that the ESA does. And they would not make it available to researchers, economists, investors, policymakers, other companies, etc.

Have you have ever accessed and used the data series we are talking about? Suppose you needed to know what the US balance of trade with China or India is. Could your company gather the data, or pay someone to do so? No way.

I'd probably find that info in the Dept. of Commerce website. No need for the Census Bureau to deal with it. Their job is to count heads by actual enumeration every 10 yrs. That's it!

As I said, you don't know what the Census Bureau does. You think you do, but you don't.

Go to the Dept of Commerce website and find trade balance data. Tell me what govt website you find it on.

P.S. I'll do it for you.

http://www.commerce.gov/
Search "trade balance"
The links take you to http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/index.html and other Census Bureau pages

Why is that, you ask?

Because the Bureau of the Census is PART OF THE DEPT OF COMMERCE.

Then perhaps I should have qualified my statement with "If the Census Bureau and Dept. of Commerce actually did what they were charged with doing, I'd find.....". You illustrate my point perfectly. The Census Bureau, like all bureaucracies, has taken on a life of its own and its mission then becomes justifying their existence by finding new roles and expanding.

BTW, trade balance data IS located in the U.S. Trade Rep. website. Sorry, I should have known, since they're a client of mine. They are technically considered an executive office of the president, not part of Commerce. Though as you might imagine, the two work closely together.

So we come back to your basic argument - that since in 1789 no-one had thought of anything other than a 10-year census, now in 2007 you object to our govt collecting data about our economy and country beyond that 10-year census.

I can't think of a more unrealistic, simple-minded position to take. I am wasting my time discussing this with you.

And where do you think that data comes from?

I feel like I'm wrestling with a muddy pig here. Goodbye.

I don't object to it in the least. Why would I? Where did I say I did? But it's not what the Census Bureau was created to do and the fact that it does so now proves that bureaucracies look for ways to grow and cement their existence.

Social Security was created to keep elderly folks from living in poverty. Now it's your permanent id number, used for credit reports, college applications, you name it. And it's also now the slush fund from which Congress steals to cover up deficit spending, repaying it with worthless IOU's. Wanna know how the BATF has taken on a life of its own? How about the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights? These are all clients of mine, whose work I know well and whose money (your taxes) pays my commission checks. I'd be happy to sell used cars for a living to see these places go back to doing what they were created to do and nothing more. Ever wonder why a road toll never goes down, even after they've paid off the bonds issued to build the road? Does maint. cost as much as building it from scratch?

Met with my accountants today who still have no answers from Lansing on whether my business is even included in the new service tax (which I would need to implement/administer in just over a month!). They basically said, "don't worry about it". The new service tax - put together by a bunch of punch-drunk legislators and lobbyists at 4:00 in the morning on the eve of a government shutdown - is so ill-conceived it can't possibly be put into affect. There has been such a backlash they predict it is going to soon come to a grinding halt before it even starts :rolleyes:

And John, it's 'mackinaw' :D