Service and time off for soldiers

[lyon]

Do you think that the soldiers who serve in Iraq deserve to have 15 months off between deployments?

[Eagledriver]

I think the soldiers deserve to be free from liberal wack jobs interfering in their jobs. I also think that political posts don't belong on this forum.

-Andy Simpkinson (22 years of military service)

[RSBob]

This liberal wack-job just happens to agree with Andy. This is no place for political posts - the off topic area would be appropriate.

[Larry_Ratcliff]

they should not be in Iraq in the first place

[JohnJL]

This post shouldnt be here in the first place.

And #2

[snbush67]

Technically speaking, the mission is first, therefore whatever personell rotation it takes in order to man the forces nessassary to meet or exceed mission requirement as determined by OTG commanders.

Of course OTG commanders will never get what they ask for.

I favor a draft in order to support 6 month rotations.

Your Quote; "Do you think that the soldiers who serve in Iraq deserve to have 15 months off between deployments?"

Time off?... Seriously, yeah we just meander back from a deployment and take 15 months off, drink beer, get fat and then bam! 12-15 months of that and we are on a plane back to Iraq. Get real..

Anyway, I think the Marine Corps has got it right at 6 mo rotations.

[rootmatt]

I'd suggest a compression and leak-down test. If it ain't good, consider a valve job, at least. Oh, and get yourself some fluffy dice for the mirror.

Soldiers? Que?

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Eagledriver

I think the soldiers deserve to be free from liberal wack jobs interfering in their jobs. I also think that political posts don't belong on this forum.

-Andy Simpkinson (22 years of military service)

+1

[FOG]

How about 30 days basket leave? Seriously too much time off lets the skills erode and team work breaks down. Not enough down time also has negative effects.

In country effects are vastly different. Running convoys, sitting on the Syrian border, flying out of an in country airfield, TacAir into Iraqi airspace from outside while never descending below 15,000’, or working in Kuwait/Qatar/etc.? Very different experiences. How well was the unit prepped for the mission, both long term and immediate training?

How long back in CONUS is another variable.

S/F, FOG

[rammstein]

Having never served a day in the military, I won't vote on this. How could I POSSIBLY know whats right in this scenario?

Let the military confer with their officers and soldiers and make their choices.

Edit: As per the 'deserve' portion of the question, they deserve the BEST. I just don't know what the best would be for them.

[kach22i]

Haven't they always been expendable?

Government property?

Meat?



Good think I'm joking but the war is not a joke, our guys (and gals) deserve to be doing what they signed up for - DEFENDING OUR COUNTRY, and not someone elses.

[snbush67]

Originally Posted by kach22i

Good think I'm joking but the war is not a joke, our guys (and gals) deserve to be doing what they signed up for - DEFENDING OUR COUNTRY, and not someone elses.

How long do we leave the third world masses unchecked? Should we just button up the borders on the US and wait for the inevitible? It's not about "OUR COUNTRY" its about "our World" and making a difference in "our World" and if not the US Soldier than who?, that's what I believe.

You can believe all the hype about oil and money and greed, I don't buy it, but even if you do, Iv'e been there and I have wittnessed the struggles of humanity, and I for one am proud to have helped the Iraqi people.

More Hype: I do not wan't to belittle the deaths of our great Warriors who have deployed, but statistacly the men and women of our Armed Services are safer during deployments then when not. Our US highways combined with alcohol and other situations usually involving bad risk desicions claim more lives of service members in peace-time.

Some media and "Anti-War" have created an unrealistic view that we have an unprecedented loss of lives when actually, the loss of lives are statistacly less then when not deployed.

Once again: "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." —John Stuart Mill

[Nathans_Dad]

There needs to be another option:

It's none of our damn business.

Guess what? The military is a job. When you sign up you know part of the deal is that you might be deployed in a war. The military can, should and will be deployed for as long or as short of a time as they need to be. Yes, a rotation is a good thing, and time off is a good thing, but to say "All military should get 15 months off between deployments" is just silly. Is your position that if we were invaded tomorrow we wouldn't be able to send troops who were inside their 15 month rest time?

In WWII, men were deployed for years.

[FOG]

Nathans_dad,

There is a difference between different deployments. My comment about the difference between a tour in Qatar, to convoys, to Baghdad, to the Syrian border was meant to illustrate very different deployments.

During WWII the amount of time in combat was a far smaller percentage, though when in combat there were far more casualties.

Part of the deployment planning is what is sustainable due to a number of factors.

I left CONUS Oct. 01, about 10 days for a CONUS conference and three weeks of leave before transferring to my current location end of Dec. 03. Reported in as an AD on 23 Dec., went to family Christmas then went to Iraq 28 Dec for site survey, etc. on the Anbar handover. The unit I am attached to wasn’t due to rotate until the summer but was moved up due to Fallujah. Went back once more after that tour and had been working Northern Africa, now going to a med board for med. retirement.

I know other field grade officers who have either never been overseas or only six or twelve month pump to Okinawa.

S/F, FOG

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by Larry Ratcliff

they should not be in Iraq in the first place

+1

[snbush67]

Originally Posted by Larry Ratcliff

they should not be in Iraq in the first place

Then who should?

[snbush67]

Originally Posted by snbush67

Then who should?

I hear crickets.

[Larry_Ratcliff]

Originally Posted by snbush67

Then who should?

Umm... I guess the people who live there? We went into Iraq on the premise that there were all of these weapons of mass destruction that Iraq was going to launch. Well where are they? It was all BS! I am not anti military. I have family in the military. I just think that we should not invent reasons to invade counrtries. There are Americans dieing every day on the foundation of a lie.

[Larry_Ratcliff]

Originally Posted by snbush67

How long do we leave the third world masses unchecked? Should we just button up the borders on the US and wait for the inevitible? It's not about "OUR COUNTRY" its about "our World" and making a difference in "our World" and if not the US Soldier than who?, that's what I believe.

You can believe all the hype about oil and money and greed, I don't buy it, but even if you do, Iv'e been there and I have wittnessed the struggles of humanity, and I for one am proud to have helped the Iraqi people.

More Hype: I do not wan't to belittle the deaths of our great Warriors who have deployed, but statistacly the men and women of our Armed Services are safer during deployments then when not. Our US highways combined with alcohol and other situations usually involving bad risk desicions claim more lives of service members in peace-time.

Some media and "Anti-War" have created an unrealistic view that we have an unprecedented loss of lives when actually, the loss of lives are statistacly less then when not deployed.

Once again: "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." —John Stuart Mill

Ok so now the US should just become the agressor on all fronts? WTF what about deplomacy? What about the UN? Its like me saying Oh I dont agree with you therefore I punch you in the mouth....

We attack Iraq but Bin Laden was not from there nor does he reside there. We attack Iraq due to unfinshed buisness of Bush Senior and a bunch of lies.

Lets be realistic, America is now frowned upon by all other nations because we invaded a country that really posed no threat what so ever to us.

Stats on the safety of inlisted men on the US freeways ..... I dont know what kind of crap you have been reading but I am pretty sure that I would rather die in a traffic accident on US soil that in Iraq with people trying to shoot me or blow me up.

[snbush67]

Larry,
I get your point and understand that you have total buy in on the way some media has portreyed the events in Iraq. The people who lived there were unfortunatly thrown together and told they were all Iraqi, in boundies invented by the British and given a puppet king also appointed and controlled by the Britsh, as time went by these people came to resent and overthrow the king(s) and went back to thier tribal segregated ways, eventually to be ruled by a military dictator, after several unsucessful Military campaigns against thier neighbors and decades of getting thier butts kicked they invaded Kuwait, the US rescued Kuwait.

So I agree with your point to an extent....IE UK, and Kuwait should be there, and they are kinda sorta..

Unfortunatly following the initail victory, the US decision at the time was to disarm and dismiss Iraqs military. We should have left them intact and paid them, instead we dismissed them and many became our enemies.

So there are a lot of hidsight shoulda, woulda, coulda etc. but right now given the current situation we should keep doing what we are doing.

I think it would be so selfish to tell other (the Iraqi) people who are less fortunate than ourselves that we are no longer helping, youre on your own. Yes there are other places in the world that need as much or even more help than the Iraqi people but that's where we are, and we are making a difference.