John, I had a reply all typed up but I had to delete it. I promised myself I was going to try and be nicer from now on.
I can say that for someone who goes out of his way to discredit the bible, it appears you know very little about it.
If you want to ridicule something as if you were an expert you should at least have some knowledge of the subject.

BTW your statement that no one has ever seen god is not entirely true. I have not seen god as an entity but I have experienced his presence.

You need only look around you to see the devil in action.

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/images/ACF393.jpg
http://samueljscott.files.wordpress..../holocaust.jpg

And that God is also around

http://g8.no/images/20061027044306_peace.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/huntsville/1/0/...aJoulePeer.jpg


Matthew 4:10-12
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

i think what he means is 'noone has ever proven to me that they've seen God'.

Nice post above (adrian). But I have proof:

http://www.lasvegasroundtheclock.com...rrot_Top_2.jpg

Enough said.

You know when your in God's presence for sure.

Thoes that "know" what I'm talking about know how and why.

:)

:rolleyes:

Have you ever met my ex? That is absolute proof the devil exists.

If by proof you mean scientific proof that satan exists, it is doubtful that you will be able to find proof that either God or satan exists beyond a shadow of doubt.

It is very much like trying to prove from a scientific view point that emotions exist. Indeed, one can see the by-product of happiness or sadness, and the chemical reactions that a human goes through when someone experiences such emotions, but one simply cannot scientifically explain why one gets sad or happy, angry or frightened -- from a scientific point of view. Why does a cuddly puppy bring a smile to someone's face? Why does a stroll down the beach with a loved one give you the warm fuzzies?

To ask someone to [scientifically] prove that God or satan exists is asking the impossible, since both God and satan "operate" in a spiritual realm, and not a scientific one. That said, often the physical, scientific realm and the spiritual realm intersect. The best example of this is when Jesus Christ walked on this earth. Other examples are unexplained phenomena (miracles), and demon possession. When a person starts talking in a language that he or she has never been exposed to or studied, how can you explain that scientifically? There are documented cases where this occurred and some of these cases were attributted to demonic possesion.

Based on what I've been taught, satan is the ruler of this earth, for now. And there is much physical evidence that this is true: war, violence, evil are escalating exponentially.

So how does that jive with the belief that we are constantly evolving and improving? If we are always getting better, then isn't it a contradiction that there is more and more evil in the world? Thus, although it is a "negative proof," I would say the fact that throughout modern history, it can be seen that evil has increased instead of decreased, which is in contraction to how evolution is supposed to work. Thus, there must be some driving force behind this evil, which is satan.

-Z-man.

Fact?

"Whoo, whoo....Hope you guess my name";)

Ok, can you disprove that evil has increased throughout history?

Maybe fact is too absolute a word, but the general consensus seems to side with that notion...

-Z

simple questions about things I can't understand or answer for myself. seems no one else has ever had a believable honest answer. I have never gone out of my way to ridicule religion. gone out of my way to avoid it usually. if someone asking questions gets you bent, then I'm not the one with the problem

What are you saying?

Satan is stronger than God?

Humans are absolved of all wrong doing because "the devil made me do it?"

I don't know about you, but Christ didn't die for our sins so that we could be blameless in the end.

Saying Satan is the driving force behind the increase in evil (which there isn't BTW) is like the kid blaming his imaginary friend for the missing cookies.

Take responsibility for evil.

Take responsibility for combatting evil.

Look first upward, then inward, not down.

Yes, fact is too absolute a word. You should have used "opinion." :)

dude, you aren't interpreting the Trek scriptures properly
the whole point of that quote is about not hating the Vulcans

that would require posting something from the Old Movie Testaments

3rd full featured Testament,

Kirk said "You're suffering from a Vulcan Mind Meld, Doctor."
the Doctor replied "That green-blooded Son of a *****. It's his revenge for all those arguments he lost to me."

I see the light! Vulcan hating was Old Movie Testament stuff. Spock died and was reborn. We should now love Spock and his pointy ears. :)

dude, Spocks rebirth was also in the Old Testament Movies
the New Testaments were with Picard

Spock died in the 2nd Testament, MindMelted McCoy
who found out in the 3rd Testament and wasn't happy at first, but then he came round after Spock was found and reborn

you have some Testament studying to do Frogger...

Yes. when the world was a little evil, God destroyed cities. When the world was a lot evil, he destroyed the entire planet save for Noah and his family and 2 of every animal they could get on the ark.

Seems to me if the world were more evil in God's eyes he'd just start all over again. Logic dictates it.

Cool. It's been a fun ride. :)

And so it begins, again . . .

If there is a Teapot

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1190915810.jpg


There must be . . .

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1190916985.jpg

Best,

Kurt

And so it was written. :)

I'm really a teapot follower. But I think I can be converted. What's the benefit package? :)

No. Absolutely not. But God has allowed satan to reign over this earth for a time.
Examples:
Again, I am not saying that. While satan influences mankind (ie: temptation), ultimately, each and every man is responsible for his or her own actions.
Actually, through Christ's death, we are made blameless. He has made the payment for all of our sin and wrong doing. He "stood in" for us and received the punishment for our sins.

That said, "The devil made me do it" is not a valid argument. Everyone is tempted, and that's satan's doing. Those who succumb to the temptation are responsible for their actions.
Again, I'm not trying to avoid the responsibility for anyone's sins or wrong doing -- but satan is the driving force behind the evil in this world.
Indeed.

-Zoltan.

- you get to pick yer food and the ship's computer just materializes it
- excellent medical coverage
- see the universe
- a phazer
- a communicator
- you get to use terms like "dilithium crystals" and "shield harmonic frequency inversion"
- go really, really, really fast ( faster then Ricky Bobby, even faster then Maverick and Goose , Chuck Yeager or any of the Apollo or Shuttle Crews ever did)
- you can get to travel back in time ( in exceptional circumstances only )
- beam down to a planet, and have fun with the blue eyed, blue skinned blonde bimbo's there
- Holodeck (imagine hot superstar you want to try, tell computer, voila)

all in all, i think it's a very competetive package.
no rickety old crappy spaceships like the StarWars geeks have
that lightsaber get's old pretty quickly, it's no substitute for mod-con's

Sounds great. What's the downside? :)

"...for the mind is its own place, and itself can make a heaven of hell; a hell of heaven."

nothing big, just couple of Klingons, Romulans, Borg, Dominion, Ferengi
but most of them are under control Kirk and Picard have shown the way, just have to follow their lead and avoid job's like yeoman Johnson , the sort that's usually #4 in an away party of 5

Had a conversation on faith one day with a Jesuit priest back in high school. Told me that if you need proof of god's existence, you have no faith. If you have no faith, you have no business attending church, all it was good for was an emotional panacea. Never went to church after that.

Rings true on both sides of the plate.

Well, that's something to think about, Stijn. Do I give up the relative safety of my teapots for phazors and photon torpoedos and some Romulan ale? Decisions, decisions. :)

Why does that look like Kryton from "Red Dwarf"?


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1190927112.jpg

it's about faith
do you believe that teapots can satisfy you
or do you think you need something more, something like this

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1190927461.jpg

'nough said

Faith is when all is despair, without hope or sign and you keep going, one foot in front of the other.

[fumbling around] Where's my pen![/fumbling around] :)

to the buffet table. :)

Is Tabs around?

Tabs always is, with or without Mother

call 330-786-4479

It's my ex wife's number. give her a call and be convinced.

mate, i hope that's not a real number
wouldn't want you to get into any legal "harrasement" trouble

you will all hail the goat
you cannot escape