Colt 1911 gurus...what's a good clone?
 

I've been looking at vintage Colt 1911's, but I ain't gonna pay the price they're asking. Anyone have opinions as to which clones are decent quality? I've ruled out Llama, but what about Kimber, Dan Wesson, Para-Ordnance? They all look similar in quality to the un-trained eye, but each manufacturer claims theirs is better. Whatever brand I purchase, I will keep it for a long time, so I would like the best. This will be a hip gun.

On a side note...anyone have one of these? I'd also like a concealed weapon...this looks nice!

http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/08...3847110093.jpg

Turners the the Kimber 45 on sale right now.

Shorthand for.... :confused: Is "Turners" a retailer? Internet?

Edit: Found it. Thanks.

Sorry, you sig says southwest so I presumed you had heard of them, they are a chain of sporting goods stores that sells mostly guns and fishing stuff, AFAIK they are only in California.

http://www.turners.com/

If you are looking for "budget" frames as starters to modify, I would recommend the Charles Daly or Rock Island Armory 1911s.

Both are great frames for modification.

Hope it helps!
Nick

Back at you!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1191109441.gif

Not looking for budget. Looking for high(er) quality. I'm probably not going to do any heavy mods. Maybe a custom trigger and hammer...grips. Someone at a gun shop mentioned parts (all?) of the Rock Island guns are manuf. in the Phillipines? Not sure about Charles Daly, though.

Kimber makes one of the best quality mass-produced 1911's out there. For slightly more "custom" variants, I'd look at Ed Brown, Wilson, Nighthawk, STI, SVI/Infinity, & our own Dane Burns. Just keep in mind the cost of "high quality" rises sharply in the 1911 world.

Take a look at Ed Brown 1911s...that what I want...a Custom Classic.

http://www.edbrown.com/

Took my Colt National Match out today and shot it, what a dream. That gun is so tight...

Para Ordnance Limiteds are nice pieces. I've been very satisfied with mine. You need to check out which grip size suits you best, PA's are double stack mags and the grip is pretty wide. The Kimbers are nice, and single stacks are thinner and carry a little easier.

John

This one is hardly stock, but I'd rather have the pony on the slide every time :)

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2...delta_left.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2...elta_right.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2...delta_grip.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2...lta_muzzle.jpg
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I'm still waiting for my Dad to part with his vintage Colt Commander, which he bought before going to Korea, and later Vietnam. We wear each other out who needs it more:)

Non-vintage, and a shooter, hard to go wrong with any of the good manufacturers. I have a Kimber and it has been excellent.

jt1 is on the button concerning grip size.

Go rent a variety at a range and shoot until you're happy.

Very nice piece.

Your statement, however, is the root of my internal debate. When I look at other brands, they all claim "improvements" of this or that over the Colt... yet Colt is right up there in price. Not trying to start a Colt vs. Clones war, but what's the real deal? I'm smart enough to not believe every advertisement I read.

+1 on Kimber
...........or.............

www.clarkcustomguns.com

will build any flavor you want up to full-race.;)
I live less than 5 miles from their shop. Like having the RUF shop in your neighborhood.

They are on my "not totally U.S. made" list:

The company imports the Croatian XD pistol series, and manufactures M1911 clones (largely built with Brazilian components, including frames), M1 Garands, and the M14-based M1A Rifle series.

Don't worry, Im not interested in a Colt vs. clones thread either, that's not my intent. I've been where your at. The best advice I can give is as follows: Go for the Pony.

Seriously, unless CA law prevents you from doing so, buy a recent 70 series reissue. If you cant do that, buy a used worked over full house job from a known smith and enjoy.

OK. I'll give 'em a closer look. I live between FL & NM, so no gun restrictions.

I love my Rock Island 2500 rounds, 4 jams all in the first 100 rounds. Only thing I'd change would be to spend the extra and get the "tactical" model - but mostly for the sites. Otherwise, my GI is fine. Or the shop I help with computer stuff has a Ballester Molina in at the moment... just like a 1911, but no grip safety.

A buddy of mine owns the same gun and said the exact same thing with 3-4 jams in the first 100 rounds. He's blown through 4k+ rounds since without a single problem.

I'm in the same boat. I helped my mom pick it out for him for Xmas when I was 6 yrs. old. I love that stainless Commander and grew up on it. I keep telling him I'll get him a SIG P220 for a trade, since he just needs a house gun nowadays.

I have two Springfield 1911's. One is blackened stainless and very sweet. They're around $800, but I stole it for $689 delivered on Gunbroker.com. My other is a Mil-Spec, which I REALLy stole on Glocktalk for $275 delivered and then mailed off to Robar for all kinds of mods. I have about $900 into it now and it's a beauty. You can't go wrong with Kimber either. I had a ParaOrdnance P-12, but it just never shot as straight as my SIG's. I'll probably start carrying my customized Mil-Spec. pretty soon. For summer weather I usually carry my SIG P239. I have seen Kimber Custom II's at gun shows for $600 NIB.

This is the blackened stainless I have. I need to add night sights.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=81699368

The brands these guys have mentioned already are all fantastic guns; Kimber, Springfield, and the original, Colt. I'll second them on all of those.

You seem kind of leery of claimed "improvements" to the 1911, and well you should be. Most are anything but. Many of these "improvements" have trickled down from competetive shooting and have no place on a working gun. In particular, avoid the ambidexterous safety. It can all too easily swipe "off" when carrying in condition one; I can guarantee you, you will find that upsetting. The extended strong-side safety levers can be just as bad, swiping "off" up against your hip when carrying. You are better off with the standard, or at most very slightly larger, strong side only safety. Ditto for the slide release. Bigger than standard tends to snag on things.

Enlarged magazine release buttons will also cause trouble. They will bump up against your hip and release, causing the magazine to drop almost imperceptably. You probably won't even notice when you raise the gun to fire it, unless it falls out altogether. Most won't. What you will notice is that it is now a single shot. Stay away from those big release buttons.

Those are the top two "improvements" to avoid. Some others are not necessarily going to cause trouble, but are none the less of questionable merit. The external extractor (like on the new Smith & Wesson, among others) is dubious at best. The old internal one works and is well understood. Same thing with the elimination of the barrel bushing; it's just kind of "gilding the lilly" with no material gain.

"Improvements" that really are include the now almost standard lowered and scalloped ejection port; polished feed ramp (the frame in front of the top of the magazine) and throated chamber. I would not run a 1911 without these mods. Most have them now, except for the very low-end parkerized "GI" replica guns. Add to that a Commander hammer and beavertail grip safety, unless you like to pinch the web of your hand between the two. A flared magazine well is a nice touch, but not really necessary.

Next is a full length guide rod, but for a reason that may not seem obvious at first. Yes, they help "loose" guns function better, but on new, quality guns with tight rails, they don't do that much. Where they may help is when hiding behind a barricade, and raising the gun to shoot over it. Believe it or not, guys tend to "stub" the recoil spring plunger on the barricade because they are sticking the gun out fast and trying to stay low. Without a full length guide rod arresting reaward motion of the slide, it can jam and disable the gun. I used to see it a lot at IPSC matches. There, all it costs you is some time. In real life that could be kind of a bummer.

Anyway, beyond the already recommended brands, those are features to look for, both to embrace and to avoid. Even top quality guns will often include the things you should avoid; don't assume it must be an "improvement" because it is found on even a number of top shelf guns. Like any other consumer product, there is still a lot of marketing involved, and the attendant trends and hype. How else to you sell more examples of a gun that has not fundementaly changed (and really should not) since 1911, in a saturated market? Why, you "improve" it, of course... Sounds like you are on to that one already.

Kimber is popular for the features and of course, the price.

Pretty much anything under $1K price tag is going to have MIM (powdered metal) parts in it. It's a big debate the reliability of these guns - some prefer to have honest steel, but you pay for it.

With that said, my local shop always says Kimbers have the highest rate of returns of all the stuff they sell.

While I don't own a Kimber, i do have a Smith & Wesson Commander clone, which is a beautiful shooter with a lot of great features (full length guide rod, tuned trigger) that was around $800 MSRP. Also I have a Para 14-45 Govt. sized 1911 (14 shot .45) - I never got that thing to feed reliably, but it does feel nice to shoot. Also, a customized Colt original Series 70 Commander, nicest gun I own - has the most crap done to it.

With that said, I'd look at the new Colts or take out a Smith if budget is tight. Either one will keep you happy.

rjp

Thanks, Jeff, for the essay. I will print and read when comparing models.

Commanders ain't cheap these days. My dad's is a series 70 and I don't think they're going for under $800 now. My mom paid $150 for it NIB in 1977. My dad had the ramp polished and put some S&W revolver sights on it, which was fashionable at the time. When I get it, it will get better sights. I wanted a really personalized 1911, so when I got my dirt cheap Springfield 1911, I rounded up the barrel, guide rod, beavertail, trigger and hammer I wanted, then mailed the wholse schmeer off to Robar. They refinished the slide, frame and most components in Roguard. I wanted just the skeletonized trigger, hammer and barrel bushing done in NP3. Then they added Trijicon night sights. It's a really sweet shooter and looks cool too. But I'm a tad hesitant to CCW it, since it will most certainly be lost if I ever have to use it. Whereas, I can always replace any of my SIG's anytime, if I lost one in an evidence locker.

Kimber is very hard to beat. They are accurate "out of the box" and only get better with time.

Well...now that we've come full circle back to Colt, I'm really digging on the Colt New Agent (aka Defender Concealed), about $750:

http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/08...3758665187.jpg

Oh yeah, my Commander wasn't under $800, I bought it hot rodded with a black chrome finish, squared trigger guard, extended release, ambi, and all the usual bells and whistles and brass sites. It's definitely not original anymore. I use some odd brand (I can't remember the brand) magazines and zero feed problems.

my Smith, in over 500 rounds hasn't misfed once, ball, hollowpoint, whatever. I don't hesitate to carry that if needed, but I have a Glock 27 that serves daily

Hijack. I'm about to make an impulse buy on a Walther P22 for my lady. I figure I won't be able to buy guns for a while when I move to AZ and keep my VA residency until I decide where to live. I want her to be able to shoot cheaply with me at the range and not be scared of the big guns.

a new gun is always a good choice as if the gun is a carry piece - if there's bugs in it you have a warranty.

someone's former toy could be a headache if the work done on the gun is no good. It's a leap of faith to buy a customized gun.

I lucked out with my colt, but I made sure I had the right to return it in 7 days if it acted screwy.

rjp

I'm a Sig guy myself, but I can tell you that a Kimber Custom II is a VERY nice 1911 out of the box. Amazing accuracy. I've put 300+ rounds through one, and it was a pleasure all around. I'd pick one up myself, but Mr. Higgins has got me on a revolver kick. Next purchase will likely be a Ruger .44

You can stay a Sig guy...

http://sigarms.com/images/catalog/pr...t_BLK_left.jpg

http://sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=25&produ ctid=133

Sig 1911 is a beautiful gun, very nice. I'm also a big fan of the Springfield government model. However, I've been very happy with my plain jane Mil-Spec. Right now, all I wish for is night sights, ligher trigger, and a beavertail. Having shot modified 1911s, those are the only "custom" featues that I really feel like I need.

I want to try out the Sigs - there's a guy in my gym who uses one in shooting competitions - claims it's better than Sex.

Hell yes, my 1911's I consider probably the permanent item in my life even over my 911. I'll be buried with them all.

If you have the cash money, get a stock Colt then you can also support the pelicans and have Dane Burns (rdane) work on your gun - he's all over the country with his 1911 work.

www.burnscustom.com

rjp

I have a buddy that knows the Clarks. He has a nice Norinco that he had Clark's do a job on. New barrel and bushing hand fit, trigger job, beavertail grip safety, and a brushed hard chrome finish. It's THE smoothest feeling 1911 I've ever held.

My plan is to get a SA Milspec stainless (since I HATE front slide serrations) and have Clark's do the barrel/accuracy job and a trigger job. The milspec grip safety and hammer don't bite me, so I don't need to 'fix what ain't broken'.

And if you think THAT was smooth, you need to wrap your hand around a Clark's Millennium Meltdown model. (although the standard Meltdowns are works of art as well).;)

Well, I don't know about THAT, but its a nice gun..... :)

I have a 226R .40. Its absurdly accurate. Never jams, even when dirty. When I went looking for my first semi-auto, I researched for a year, and shot tons of guns. The Sig came out on top. I picked up a 220 .45 later, and passed it on to my dad after I had got a few hundred rounds through it.

Next Sig will be a 229 9mm.

Any votes for Les Baer? I've personally never shot one, though I've held a few (not that that counts for much), but I've never read a single bad word about them.

One I handled at a gun shop was so tight it required a very large heave and grunt to rack the slide. One of the guys at the shop, John, showed me a trick to doing more easily. He gave it a good slap on the bushing with the heel of his hand, which dis-engaged it and then just pulled the slide back as usual.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw Les Baer out there. Jeff, opinions? Anyone?