Massa vs Kubica in the Rain...

livi · 10-04-2007, 09:31 AM

Nothing less than spectacular. I am in complete awe of those masters. Doing that, at that speed, not seeing nothing of the car in front. Unbelievable. They are truly the top of the food chain in motor sport.

TheMentat · TheMentat's Garage

Neither of those guys were leaving each other much room!

Jims5543 · 10-04-2007, 09:42 AM

Nice to see it again after You tube pulled it.

I am bookmarking that site.

Zeke · 10-04-2007, 11:48 AM

Those guys are driving in the most irresponsible way I can think of. I don't really care if they hurt each other, but in the name of racing for the good of the teams, Id' fire both of them today. We don't need idiots out there that think so little of the fact that these are multi-million dollar cars and one doesn't interlock wheels with them many times w/o drastic results both to equipment and driver.

Now that hey drive like the IRL guys, I have quit watching altogether. In fact, IRL is much more exciting, especially if you like close, open wheel racing.

jriera · 10-04-2007, 12:07 PM

Check this video of Hamilton pulling something 'funny' with Vettel and Webber --> http://www.elperiodico.com/default.asp?idpublicacio_PK=46&idioma=CAS&idnoticia_PK=447231&idseccio_PK=1011,
site is in Spanish

gr8fl4porsche · gr8fl4porsche's Garage

That's why racing is not for the poor or faint of heart. Looks like some great balls-out racing to me.

the · 10-04-2007, 12:11 PM

I've been watching F1 for 15 years, and that was one of the best dices (probably the best) I've ever seen.

Jims5543 · 10-04-2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jriera

Check this video of Hamilton pulling something 'funny' with Vettel and Webber --> http://www.elperiodico.com/default.asp?idpublicacio_PK=46&idioma=CAS&idnoticia_PK=447231&idseccio_PK=1011,
site is in Spanish

Yup, You Tube pulled it because it was a violation yet there are 1000's of F1 videos.

Thanks for that link.

Seahawk · 10-04-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the

I've been watching F1 for 15 years, and that was one of the best dices (probably the best) I've ever seen.

I agree...and I think the only reason they didn't spin when they bumped was because of the hydroplaning and lack of friction on the track and tires, even in the rough.

There just didn't seem to be enough momentum to overcome the straight-line thrust.

Jims5543 · 10-04-2007, 12:36 PM

I honestly do not think they were intending to hit each other, they were sliding into one another, overly optimistic might be a good description of their passes.

I did not see reckless, I saw determined. I wish Kimi would have pushed that hard once he caught up to Kovalainen and tried to pass, I wish he would have kept pushing like Massa did.

Great Video - Its too bad You Tube keeps pulling the good ones.

RUFme · 10-05-2007, 12:23 AM

Heres another link from youtube that is still working. I think they must have been wearing a 4 pt harness cuz the hole for the 5th strap was occupied by a giant pair of Massa balls!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgkR9Dej0wk

ted · ted's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by RUFme

Heres another link from youtube that is still working. I think they must have been wearing a 4 pt harness cuz the hole for the 5th strap was occupied by a giant pair of Massa balls!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgkR9Dej0wk

Awesome.
Truely awesome will be doing the same thing next year without TC.

Jims5543 · 10-05-2007, 03:43 AM

I read an interesting article in Racer Magazine, I think it was Nick Heidfeld drove a car with the traction control completely turned off. He said when he was going through a chicane the car just swapped ends on him so fast he could not react. He said it was going to be difficult to adjust to not having the TC.

Ha also commented that rain races would be nearly impossible.

Aerkuld · Aerkuld's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by milt

Those guys are driving in the most irresponsible way I can think of. I don't really care if they hurt each other, but in the name of racing for the good of the teams, Id' fire both of them today. We don't need idiots out there that think so little of the fact that these are multi-million dollar cars and one doesn't interlock wheels with them many times w/o drastic results both to equipment and driver.
...

I hope you were being sarcastic.

This sort of driving could be called irresponsible anywhere other than a track, but the fact is it was on a track. There are huge run off areas giving plently of time for the car to slow down before it hits anything, there are no concrete wall on the edge of the racing surface. On top of that, these cars are incredibly strong. Just think back to Kubica's crash earlier in the year. The reality of the situation is that there is very little risk of serious injury to the driver. As for the car - they're rebuildable.
At the end of the day those guys were doing what they get paid to do, and that's to drive the car faster than the other guy. To me that was a superb display of racing and pushing the car and driver to the ragged edge in a controlled environment.
If you want to watch IRL then I respect your decision, but I'm happy watching F1 and will continue to do so.

Aerkuld · Aerkuld's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

I read an interesting article in Racer Magazine, I think it was Nick Heidfeld drove a car with the traction control completely turned off. He said when he was going through a chicane the car just swapped ends on him so fast he could not react. He said it was going to be difficult to adjust to not having the TC.

Ha also commented that rain races would be nearly impossible.

...for anyone who isn't Finnish.

MFAFF · 10-05-2007, 05:41 AM

And in the end the blowhards have backed down on Hamster's driving and Vettel's crash.

The show must go no, regardless of their own (flexible) rules.

Its nice to see that two wrongs can make a right.....

And Bernie's loving it...lots of column inches.. at least in todays' UK papers... pages and pages in fact... $$$$$$$$$

Jims5543 · 10-05-2007, 05:49 AM

Yup, I just checked Planet F1 they even dropped Vettel's penalty. very cool.

Quote:

The FIA have confirmed that Lewis Hamilton will not be punished for allegedly driving erratically behind the Safety Car during last week's Japanese GP.

In a statement, stewards declared that conditions were so bad that it would be 'inappropriate' to punish any of the drivers involved in the crash between Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel.

As a result, not only has Hamilton avoided an penalty, but Vettel will not have to serve the ten grid-slot penalty imposed by stewards at Fuji for this weekend's Chinese GP. The youngster has instead received a 'reprimand'.

Vettel's team Toro Rosso had requested that the matter be re-examined due to the appearance of new footage after the German was penalised 10 places on the starting grid for this Sunday's Chinese Grand Prix .

The new video, which was filmed by a fan in the grandstand at the Fuji Speedway and appeared on YouTube, appeared to show the McLaren driver pulling over to the right-hand side of the track and braking sharply, causing Webber to also slow unexpectedly and catch Vettel off guard, causing him to drive into the back of the Australian....................

Flatbutt1 · 10-05-2007, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jriera

Check this video of Hamilton pulling something 'funny' with Vettel and Webber --> http://www.elperiodico.com/default.asp?idpublicacio_PK=46&idioma=CAS&idnoticia_PK=447231&idseccio_PK=1011,
site is in Spanish

Hamilton was way off to the right when the other two collided. Even if it is claimed that Vettel (whoever was in 2nd)was trying to keep his place on the grid, how is Hamilton responsible for the the collision?

flashgordon13 · 10-05-2007, 05:58 AM

I fail to see Hamilton doing anything wrong. He was not even close to any other car and there was plenty of room around him. If he had slowed dramatically while on line, there may be reason to question his actions but he was so far off line that an 18 wheeler could have easily navigated thru the turn without incident. The battle between Masa and Kubica is truely classic great stuff. So much for the complaint about no passing in F1.

MFAFF · 06:51 AM

Guys,

The rules clearly state that 'erratic' driving behind the safety car is liable to be punished and that being further than 5 cars lengths behind is also reason to punish.

The vid that was 'pulled' showed both of those rules being breached, regardless of having good reason to do so.

The Safety Car was doing what the Safety Car should be doing in those conditions, that is maintaining a reasonable pace in the conditions in a stable and predictable fashion following the racing line.

The first car following the SC must act in a similarly predicatable fashion when its lights are on (which they were) rather than taking 'inventive' lines and varying speeds in an unpredictable manner....which Lh appeared to be doing and had done in the initial SC period as well.

So the rules were breached, but the FIA were already f##ked. They had punished Vettel for a 'mistake' yet had not seen transgressions by LH. The rules also state the time limits within which the incidents need to be reported....and clearly we are past that time.

To punish LH now could be percieved as 'churlish' and being a 'Ferrari' whipping boy (afterall Tost's team uses Ferrari engines) and getting lots of people's backs up.

They have therefore had to remove Vettel's punishment and 'turn a blind eye' to other transgressions..

You have to take your hat of to Bernie tho', this season has seen some drama and lots of publicity, all of it well choreographed and milked for all its worth in the papers....