What's on the menu?

[KFC911]

The only business experience I have with bars & clubs is giving them money , but I do know about southerners and "southern drinking establishments". Dueller has nailed it with their "first hand experiences" imo. When I saw your suggested name, for some reason I immediately thought "patio chairs" so if you're not going for a pun, you might want to select something else

[cashflyer]

Keith, that is the pun - Calling it Paddy O'Chair's or Paddy O'Furniture. I just throw stuff like that out there to irritate my wife, but in reality I don't want a "joke name".

Some suggestions from another website:
The Old Cock Inn (picture of rooster on sign)
The Randy Stag (picture of buck on sign)
The Irish Independent
The Irish Hoor
The Arse of Ireland
The Brick and Ferret (??)
The Irish Tosspot

And one I thought up this morning, again to irritate my wife:
The Cratch Slapper Inn

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Keith, that is the pun -

Just call me sloooooowwwwww

ps: If your wife goes for your last suggestion, I'll be there for the grand opening with my g/f!

[Dueller]

Where to begin? Books are still to be written on what you need to take into consideration.

Some quick observations/questions.

How big? How many seats at bar? At tables? Outside seating?

What are some of the successful places in the area?

You're dealing in a relatively small population/customer base.

Before you go any further wiith this, call your insurance company and get a quote on liability insurance for a bar....you'll be blown away.

What can you offer that's unique to the area? Authentic food may be a draw but not that much...think about it....do you want Mexican or italain night after night....you're gonna need some variety.

Is there a cigar shop in the area? If so team up with them and have a "cigars under the stars" night...two nights a month the place is packed with cigar smokers (including a ton of women) hanging out on the patio drinking, smoking and posing. Huge draw for some reason. Just an example of some creative draws.


Do you anticipate it becoming a "regulars" place?

Age group you're targeting? Blue collar/white collar/college?


Serve lunch? Dinner?

Entertainment? (usually only a break even proposition...often a loss leader to bring in new customers so they'll come back when you don't have music).


As far as food...some succesful pubs in our area have only 2 selections at lunch along with a limited sandwich/salad menu. E.g., we have people that only come in for Monday meatloaf or Thursday roast beef or friday fried catfish. Another place in town has a Thursday bowtie pasta and chicken that people wait in line for. Find a couple of signature dishes to serve at lunch and have only on certain days...if you run out too bad...they're in the house so they'll order something else. Translated...you don't have to have shepherds pie or beef and guinness every day unless that's your trademark dish.

You have to have some good salads...at wife's place one of the top sellers is grilled chicken ceaser...many men are ordering light fare for lunch so it ain't just women eating lite.

Gotta have a good burger. You'll sell 20 $7 burgers for every 1 $20 ribeye.

Loaded nachos a big seller.

Fried dill pickles a big seler at the bar.

Sausage and cheese plate popular at bar. Peoiple tend to liketo order things at the bar they can share. Usually a single patron doesn't want a meal at the bar.

Biggest seller on Saturday lunch is red beans and rice w/andouille sausage but we are near Nawlins.

Weekend and evenings grilled redfish with meniere sauce and chicken or shrimp with angel hair pasta and cream sauce is a big seller.

Ban blenders in the bar....anytime someone orders a frozen drink wife gives them directions to the nearest convenience store and tells them the flavors available.

You're gonna have to have some TV's in the bar atleast. During day people are addicted to news channels and nights and weekend they want sports. Turn volume off, close caption on and have music piped in unless its a big game of local interest.

Bottom line is that you can cook or drink at home a lot cheaper than in your pub....you're selling a service, not food or liquor. Make sure your bartender knows everyone by name, greets them by name when they first walk in and knows what they drink. Studies show patrons get irritated/impatient if they are no greeted within 40 seconds of being seated. Regulars are what keep you in business.

[cashflyer]

Most of this is based on the last place she was working, which we had tried to purchase when it came available last year. We obviously didn't end up with it. (The current owner paid 5 times it's appraised value.)

State law requires a minimum of 40 seats at tables to get a liquor license (bar seating does not count). Places always go a little over that so that there is never a question about capacity with the commission. So... 50 seats at tables/booths and probably 10 or so at the bar, depending upon how it's laid out.

We expect our place to be a "regulars" place, and we want our place to stand out with an authentic experience... wife wants the design and atmosphere to heavily reflect the pubs back home.

Lunch... undecided. Depends on location. May opt for just afternoon and evening hours.

Entertainment? Occasionally.

A menu with all the regular stuff, plus a daily special was appealing to me but some people didn't like the idea.

Burgers, yes. Nachos... in an Irish pub?? (I know... sell what sells.)






Strange thing is that *I* just wanted a small pub that sells beer and pizza.
Damn that woman...

[M.D. Holloway]

Growing up in an Irish home - I'm second gen Irish, we never had corned beef but rather fish about 4 times a week and lamb at least twice a week, always spuds and at least three types of veggies. Roast Beef once a week - done like a pot roast.

This was typical fare for my grand parents as well coming over from the ol sod. This menu was a reason why I dated Italian chicks in HS. They had better menus at thier homes and many liked to be diddled after dinner!

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Most of this is based on the last place she was working, which we had tried to purchase when it came available last year. We obviously didn't end up with it. (The current owner paid 5 times it's appraised value.)

State law requires a minimum of 40 seats at tables to get a liquor license (bar seating does not count). Places always go a little over that so that there is never a question about capacity with the commission. So... 50 seats at tables/booths and probably 10 or so at the bar, depending upon how it's laid out.

We expect our place to be a "regulars" place, and we want our place to stand out with an authentic experience... wife wants the design and atmosphere to heavily reflect the pubs back home.

Lunch... undecided. Depends on location. May opt for just afternoon and evening hours.

Entertainment? Occasionally.

A menu with all the regular stuff, plus a daily special was appealing to me but some people didn't like the idea.

Burgers, yes. Nachos... in an Irish pub?? (I know... sell what sells.)






Strange thing is that *I* just wanted a small pub that sells beer and pizza.
Damn that woman...

Selling a restaurant for a big profit on the blue sky is about the only way to make serious money in the business.

If its only going to seat 60 or so, I believe I'd make about half of the tables the bar height 4 tops. I got the feeling it was going to be more bar than restaurant...if that's the case people like to mingle and if the bulk of the patrons are seated at regular table height it makes it a little awkward. But if its primarily a restaurant then all low tables would be OK. Wifes place seats 176....24 at bar, 32 in bar at tables, 120 in dining room.

Authentic atmosphere may be fine, but you're dealing with a small southern population....I'd be careful about concentrating on primarily irish dishes. But who knows? There may be a niche. Sounds like you're headed a bit more upscale than I originally thought.

Basically, in wife's place the food pays the overhaed and the booze is the gross profit.

Daily specials work....either people come in knowing what the specials are or they come in to be suprised. In the evenings wife usually has 3-4 specials in addition to regular menu...usually a fish special or two, perhaps marinated pork tenderloins and a steak or pasta special. People call all thru the evening to find out what's on the specials in the evenings.

Nachos are a moneymaker. But whadda we know...her place has been in business for 3+ decades as an English pub. Get green tortilla chips use ground lamb in the chili topping and call them Irish nachos

You'd probably make a buttload more money in a pizza and beer dive biker bar

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Keith, that is the pun - Calling it Paddy O'Chair's or Paddy O'Furniture. I just throw stuff like that out there to irritate my wife, but in reality I don't want a "joke name".

You mean like this? Its a real business in Phoenix, selling what else, Patio Furniture.

http://www.paddyo.com/

[The Gaijin]

You need the Irish grub to make it legit. You need the stuff that sells to make them happy. You need the stuff with the high profit margin to make money. Take a ride up to NYC - we have about 100 Irish joints in Manhattan alone. Oh yeah, keep the pipes clean or that stout will give you the $h*ts..

[Dueller]

I'll be damned...on a lark I googled "irish nachos." Seems to be on the menus of several "Irish" pubs. Best I can tell its waffle cut fries or potato wedges with nacho toppings. Although this one appears to have corned beef in lieu chili mixture.

After opening 9 restaurants and working on my 10th, I wish you luck.

*make sure to do your homework with the city or town. Things like that can hold up your final CofO.

*I always start out with concept, then menu, then location, them cosmetics. There are lots of little thing in between but that the way I think.

*I you can afford it hire a consultant chef to set up the back of the house with food cost, order sheets, vendors, staff...etc It will save you time and $$$ in the long run. I dont care how big the location is. BTW, its what I do but work mostly on the west coast.

If you want to chat PM me. I will be dong Meals on Wheels tomorrow and consulting in Chi town over the weekend but will be available tues on.

[Dueller]

+1,000 on the chef's advice. Wife's place had the luxury of already being up and running with built in clientele. A start up is going to be way harder to keep afloat.

[scottmandue]

Irish nachos?
Heck several places around here sell French fries with melted cheese on top! My favorite joint serves them with real bacon bits and green onions... extra if you want chili on top.

Any microbreweries or brew pubs near you? A lot of the brew pubs in my area will sell kegs to local bars. That way you can have American style beers on tap with a little bit of originality.

A lot of pubs I go to have curry on the menu... maybe because there is a large Indian population in the UK? Just an idea.

Did I mention I spend way too much time in pubs?

[pwd72s]

If success is your goal...you could do worse than emulating these brothers...they started out with a single pub, in Portland's industrial produce row...the area of town where fresh produce was distributed from surrounding warehouses. Thing grew a LOT when they began making their own brews...(edit) I wonder if the old "produce row cafe" is still there? My biz took me to the area once or twice a month. I always timed things so I could stop off for lunch, have a "stormin' norman" sandwich and a pint...of the of the fond memories of my working years...

http://www.mcmenamins.com/

sometimes it not worth reinventing the wheel. Very risky.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

If success is your goal...you could do worse than emulating these brothers...they started out with a single pub, in Portland's industrial produce row... I wonder if the old "produce row cafe" is still there?

When I did an install at the Portland science museum I believe the crew would take us there after work for beers.

Ever been to the Horses brass?

And Portland is MUCH more supportive of theme bars than what cash is describing here i.e. I don't think the Kells would fly in his area.

[M.D. Holloway]

Those spuds with cheeses and peppers look great! Gots me hungy...

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

If success is your goal...you could do worse than emulating these brothers...they started out with a single pub, in Portland's industrial produce row...the area of town where fresh produce was distributed from surrounding warehouses. Thing grew a LOT when they began making their own brews...(edit) I wonder if the old "produce row cafe" is still there? My biz took me to the area once or twice a month. I always timed things so I could stop off for lunch, have a "stormin' norman" sandwich and a pint...of the of the fond memories of my working years...

http://www.mcmenamins.com/

Quite a success story...I note they have everything from the traditional irish pica de gallo to burritos to quesadillas on their menus.

[pwd72s]

Yep, quite a success story...I haven't a clue how many pubs now, stretching from Seattle to Eugene, Oregon...plus 7 or 8 restored historic hotels. I'm just guessing, but I suspect they save some costs through the "historic buildings" tax laws. But bottom line, every place is a fun place to be...great food and a wide selection of drink.