What's on the menu?
 

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So, I saw this pathetic Reuben sandwich in another thread and thought Pelicanheads would be the ideal source of some information. (Many of you are well travelled, and some of you don't know your way out of the pub. ;) )

My wife and I are considering opening a small pub. I have some previous experience managing a bar and also working in the restaurant supply industry. She has several years experience managing front of house in some local pubs. Obviously it's not an industry we are completely ignorant of, but it never hurts to have extra input and ideas.

Since she is Irish (as in really from Ireland - not just Irish ancestry) she insists that the pub be Irish as well. (I was leaning toward low-budget biker bar.:confused:)

The Reuben, although likely invented by a Russian American, seems to be on every Irish menu. What other foods do you expect to see in an Irish pub?

Keep in mind, I said pub, not 5-star restaurant. They need to be items that are relatively quick and easy. I thought maybe we could also have a weekly house special on the Saturday dinner menu - that would be the night that we could cook dishes that require more prep time, such as a big batch of Beef and Guiness stew.

Should there be non-Irish foods on the menu? I notice that both of the other Irish bars in town have hot wings on the menu. My stomach and instinct tell me to put them on the menu because they are easy and customers like them. But they're not Irish.

Competition: One true Irish pub in town, and one pub that use to be Irish (still has an Irish name but seems a lot more English under the new owners). Population: City = 56k, county = 302k

Note: I do NOT consider Bennigan's or O'Charlie's to be Irish pubs.

And another note: I have been to Ireland several times. A "true" Irish pub serves alcohol, not meals. (unless you consider peanuts a meal) But in South Carolina you can not get a liquor license unless you serve meals or make your pub a "private social club". Since we want to be open to the public, we must serve meals.

One more comment: Every time I look at that sandwich, I keep thinking, "WTF?"

I would think the Irish Stew should be constant on the menu, not just a daily "special". Maybe a type of "meat pie" would be good as well. Sausage and mashed potatoes, corned beef and cabbage, all would be good along with some non-irish fare (hot wings, burgers, stuffed baked potato). Just my .02

I don't think the real Irish really eat - just drink.

Definitely bangers and mash.

While typical, a good Guinness stew, fish and chips or Shepard's pie is what seemed to bring in the customers at the local pub here.

There are a million Irish bars in the town next to me--I'll make it my goal this weekend to do some research for you. :cool:

You gotta have stuff that people like--most places I go have "american" food--turkey club, cheeseburger--just print the menu in a Celtic style font and you'll be fine...

What my local Irish Pub offers:

Irish Dishes-

Beer Battered Cod
Bangers & Mash
Corned Beef
Shepherd’s Pie
Fish & Chips
Beef & Guinness
Colcannon
Potato & Leek Soup

Traditional-

Burgers
Crab Cakes
Steak
Fish
Assortment of Kid's favorites (Mac & Cheese, hot dogs, etc)

And of course a fine assortment of Ale :)

My biggest concerns with items like the B&G is prep time and leftovers.
I prefer to serve only fresh items for best flavor, but the B&G has a prep time of over 1 hour. This means that I come in early and cook up a big mess of B&G, hope that people order it, and throw away the remainder at a loss. Sure, I could refrigerate the leftovers... but you can almost always tell when you're served a reheated stew - the beef gets "chewy". (Maybe I'm making too much of this, but I've had some really lousy beef and Guiness stew at places.)

Shepherds pie keeps better since the meat is minced. Would you make it with lamb (traditional) or with ground beef? I suspect the beef would be more suited to American tastes.

Bangers n mash, fish n chips, corned beef and cabbage... all definitely on the list!

She wants some hot sandwiches, such as Reuben, Pastrami on Rye, roast beef au jus, and grilled chicken.

One of my vegetarian friends insists that Salads should be on the menu.

And I suspect I will also have at least one menu item that reads:
"Spam bacon sausage and spam"

Again, though... pub, not restaurant. I want to keep the menu attractive, but simple. Keep prep time minimal to keep patrons happy, serve fresh food that's cooked well, and keep waste to a minimum.

I can't wait till she gets home and can read this thread!!

What no Hagus, if you are going for true Irish, keep American food off the menu. Most people will be there for the Ale, fights, and red headed girls with green eyes :)

I dunno - oftentimes people who go to an Irish pub are there for a reason and really appreciate authenticity. Myself, I would always prefer (and will pay more for) a lamb-based shepherd's pie.

Mmmmmm....corned beef and cabbage. I love that stuff. I never knew, until after my divorce, how much I like cabbage.

Lots of folks here know how much I admire the Reuben at the 74 Street Ale House here in Seattle. That is one FINE sandwich. The corned beef is awesome. The bread is a fairly light rye. But I think it's the kraut. It's a non-pickly red cabbage kraut that is a tad spicy. Served with a wonderful pasta salad that's got those different colored olive slices in it. And a good selection of hearty beers to accompany. That place also has a terrific chicken breast sandwich and some cajun dishes that are legendary as well. Jambalaya and gumbo. All in a dark-wood, wide-mirror, low-keyed place with reading material handy. A little vacation right in the middle of your day.

Come on, Bob... haggis is a Scottish dish!! (But being of Scottish decent myself, we may try and work it in for a Burns supper!) Oh, and the redheaded girl is my wife!

Dave... lamb has a very distinct flavor and you may well be right about choosing authenticity instead of Americanizing it.

Supe... you've got me thinking about kraut now!

Do you guys usually find your Reubens to have Russian dressing, Thousand Island, or a "house sauce"?

authentic Irish food is not in the American taste. It all was rather bland to me when I was there. I ordered a "Pork Dinner" at a local pub one day and to my suprise, it was boiled bacon and potatoes. Ugh!

I'm guessing most folks in Greenville wouldn't give a patoot about a bar being authentically Irish...just make sure you have plenty of cold beer (including the American swill), and good lookin' bar maids, and you'll be all set. If that plan falls through, a good 'ole biker bar with a screen in front of the bandstand will probably make you rich :)!!!

I'm a bit of a nut for pubs so,

Have a good selection of Irish whiskeys!

+1 on the shepards pie and fish & chips.

No American beer or bugers or hot wins IMHO... if I want those I would go to Hooters.

Put up some dart boards!

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The Chieftans every friday night.

The local "Irish gone English" pub has a "jam night" that draws a good crowd. Several locals bring their Irish instruments and play.

Scott... if we were in Boston, we may survive being a pure and true Irish pub, but in South Carolina we will have to offer American beers. That being said, the pubs I frequent in Ireland all have Bud and MGD.

BTW my local English pub does a combo beef/lamb in their Shepard's pie and it is delicious!

Also might want to add a "catch of the day" seafood plate.

I will go a little against the grain here (surprise surprise) and say I think some people do appreciate an authentic pub... there are plenty of them around the country and they seem to do quite well.

Edit: I see your above post... do whatever works as far as beer... like I said I'm a bit of a nut about this sort of thing.

:) McSorleys (of NYC) would probably go broke in Greenville...

Shepherd's pie for sure. An Irish stew would be nice, but how many people order stew when they go out?

I would have 4-5 Irish dishes on the list, then general pub food staples.

There's an Irish Bar in Montreal that I used to go to. Owned by a jewish family, blues music every weekend, a chinese takeaout in the back.

Please tell me you're kidding....

Well, the wife has reviewed the thread and enjoyed it!
Her decisions on the important topics are:
Lamb in the shepherds pie.
I will make the beef and Guiness on a daily basis.


One thing I failed to mention, but she reminded me will be of help for ideas... Her mother and father have each run pubs in Ireland for many years. I think her da is out of it now, but I know mum is still working away.

Here's one of my favorite places:
http://www.mournelive.com/news/news/viewdetails.asp?newsID=246

you can't swing a dead cat without hitting an Irish Pub in Boston. Would you like me to check some out? get menus, etc.?

the ones I've been to have very simple fare and lots of beer. they are about bar stools (and some patrons) that were there since the early 1900's. if you are going to go authentic, consider finding some ancient wooden beams, bar, tables and chairs in Ireland and filling a container. with all the pseudo-experience chain restaurants out there, I think it would be worth looking into a truly authentic experience. music is a must, and brings in new customers.

that's an important point: to some degree, it's easy to get people into the door once.

what are you going to do to keep them coming back? what will make your place "the place" to have a beer and relax?

sounds very exciting!

Cash,
This gives you a good feel for a mix of Irish and American mix on the menu--lower right is a downloadable menu. No affiliation, just a fun place with a cool interior--I have a brew here every now and then waiting for soccer practice to end...

http://www.mcnallysirishpubs.com/

Sup...you're killin' me man. Drool. Only a half hour away...and I can stop by JW's shop for a little bull session.

Life is good.

Boxty.

Check out Gallagher's in Dublin. I ALWAYS go there when I'm in Dublin.
They also do live music, and it's difficult to get in.

http://www.boxtyhouse.ie/

Thanks guys... I'll check again tomorrow.
Calling it a day and going home to convince the wife we need an evening of "research".

Deep fried everything, including twinkies and snickers bars ;)

You might get ahold of Dueller. Believe that his wife runs a pub sort of place and they might be able to give you input on it a lot better than some of us.

We can tell you what we like to eat, and she can tell you what sells and what not to do!

Joe

Bubbles and Squeak (cabbage abd mashed potatos)
Guinness stew

... many Irish beers on tap and Red Breast whiskey!

Don't forget the rat tart... :p

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Thanks for the menu suggestions and the links.

My wife appreciated it so much that she has another request. She says, "ask them for name suggestions." To which I said something about her being insane, and about the nature of asking a bunch of internet hooligans to name her pub.

Anyway, she asked for it.....




(My suggestion was Patty O'Chairs.)

Just came in from lunch at the Irish pub in town. Don't forget "Mom's Meat Loaf"

Oh and I LIKE the name "Hooligan's"

I like it...but I'm not Irish!

ps: Will folks in SC get the pun? ...just kidding :)

If her mom's meatloaf is anything like hers... we better find some other mother for the recipe!!


She originally thought of using her family name. Something along the lines of McEvoy's.... Today she asked me how I felt about the Gaelic spelling of her hometown's name, but I told her that the locals would spend too much time scratching their head & trying to figure out the name.

I'm not really interested in joke names. And of course we wouldn't want a name that would alienate or offend.

Here's a link to wife's restaurant.

http://www.scrooges.ms/index.php

There you will find the menu. Its been in business for 35 years thru a succession of owners. We've had it for the past seven. Serve somewhere in the range of 200-250 lunch orders per day. Business in the evening is primarily bar crowd esting pub food or blue plate specials/steaks. Know for the wide assortment of veggie sides (20-25 selections fresh cooked each day).

Our demographics are city population of 200,000; tri county area population of 600,000. There is one other "non-corporate" true Irish Pub in the area that only serves lunch but open as a bar in the evenings. They serve a good irish stew and shephards pie but, like us have gravitated towards plate lunches and americanized pub grub.

As far as music, the other pub has celktic music/dancers about twice per month. They tried it weekly than that but the audience began to dwindle. Now they have open mike twice a week and a variety of acts on Friday and saturday that draws a college crowd. Wife's place has live music on Friday and saturdays and some Sunday afternoons in the pub...thats out since everybody comes in on Sundays for football. They do have some soccer channels since we a big group of english/irish soccer coaches in the area (go figure).

Tried a number of authentic english dishes (bangers and mash, etc) but the southern palate does not appreciate it as we expected. Ditto with the wide assortment of imported beers. Keep a small supply of bottled imports but domestic beer rules in this market.

You are prepared to not make a dime in the fist18-24 months, right?:D

Oh yeah...since it sounds like you have a relatively small population and you are leaning towards more of a pub rather than restaurant, find the most popular bartender in town. Hire her. She will do more to bring in regular customers than anything. That is unless you/your wifealready have a following.

Keep in mind we've found a number of people want to eat in a dining room area apart from the bar.


My favorite Irish joke:

An Irishmann walks out of a bar...:D:D:D

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Bunch of utility workers during afterrmath of Katrina...it was the only place within 10 miles that had power for over 8 days.

Thanks for the input and the link.
I pretty much figured that "too authentic" might be pushing our luck here in the South. Just watch a persons face when you mention "blood pudding"!

My wife has been away from the pubs for about 3 years now, but she still has close friends in the business - one of which is a hot young lady who certainly does have a following. When her brother-in-law fired her from his pub, he had to put up a sign at either end of the bar that reads, "do not ask for her - she is not here".

I hear patrons still ask.