Tell me how this is American?

[mjshira]

http://www.nbc11.com/news/14307719/detail.html

[dd74]

I predict in our lifetime that smoking will be made illegal.

[legion]

Originally Posted by dd74

I predict in our lifetime that smoking will be made illegal.

Great. Cigarettes will become currency outside of prison too.

[stevepaa]

Is the question related to the ordinance or the emails from those against it.

[the]

That's interesting, one of my relatives that has a small apartment complex is dealing with this issue. One of the tenants is complaining about another tenant who smokes. Because the smoke comes out of the smokers window below and goes right into the non-smoker's above.

My relative told the non-smoker that she's sorry, but there's nothing she can do about the smoker, who is smoking in her own unit.

I'm not sure where I would come down on a law like this. A law that bans smoking in your own private home, which is sitting on your own lot, where the smoke cannot unreasonably affect anyone, would of course be bad.

But this law seems to only affect multi-unit apartment complexes that share common walls and floors. It does seem at least designed to address a legit conflict: The smoker should be free to live in their apartment and do what they want, but the non-smoker should also be free to live in their apartment and be free from unwanted second hand smoke.

I suppose the best answer may to not have the law and let the market (i.e., landlords and tenants) decide. But that assumes that there is a free market, I don't know if that is true. For instance, can a landlord legally ban tenants from smoking in their units? If not, it's not really a fair or equal situation.

[Moneyguy1]

I think you all should park your cars and not drive them anymore. Exhaust fumes bother me and I have a right to clean air and reduced nose (and noise) pollution!!

[The Gaijin]

As American as the Plymouth bay colony. Let's not fight it. Embrace our shared Puritan roots!

[dd74]

Originally Posted by legion

Great. Cigarettes will become currency outside of prison too.

Nah! By the time they're made illegal, they'll be so damned expensive and taxed so highly, only a few will be able to afford them. Then those few will want to smoke where wealthy non-smokers (fresh from yoga and smoothie sipping) will raise so much Cain, the lawmakers will have to make it illegal.

Demise of an addiction is a good thing, but doing so through such Draconian measures by legally ostracizing folks, shows a pure lack of civility.

Up next: our gasoline powered vehicles. I'm sure Cali will lead the charge toward making those illegal.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by the

That's interesting, one of my relatives that has a small apartment complex is dealing with this issue. One of the tenants is complaining about another tenant who smokes. Because the smoke comes out of the smokers window below and goes right into the non-smoker's above.

My relative told the non-smoker that she's sorry, but there's nothing she can do about the smoker, who is smoking in her own unit.

This ones easy. Get a window vent fan that exhausts out that window. It will suck clean fresh air in the other windows then shove it out towards the apartment with the smokers inside.

Just for grins they can hang some garlic, old meat or fart in the general direction of the fan, which will then deliver the aroma to the smokers. Hope they enjoy it as much as the other occupants enjoyed the smoke smell.

[mjshira]

I happen to not like smoking, having quit. I just dislike telling other people what to do MORE. The more we as society tell others to do or not do, the less freedom we will have as individuals to decide what to do and not do.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by mjshira

I happen to not like smoking, having quit. I just dislike telling other people what to do MORE. The more we as society tell others to do or not do, the less freedom we will have as individuals to decide what to do and not do.

Vote libertarian. Or revolt. It's all I/we have...

[Superman]

It just depends on your perspective. On the abortion issue, there are those who are not concerned about the rights of the unborn fetus. Their focus is on the rights of the pregnant woman. As if the fetus were another organ, like a spare gall bladder or something. From that perspective, abortions should be legal. But from the other perspective, the rights of a child/fetus were taken away.

With this smoking thing there are the rights of smokers. Here, the gubmit is not trying to stop people from smoking. They are simply viewing this from the perspective of the other person. A non-smoker might feel they are entitled to breathe air, in their own home that has not been, moments ago, filled with cigarette smoke. This legislation protects somebody's right to live in a home without cigarette smoke. Sure, Joe has a solution. Heck, why don't we have 3M come in and design a filtration system? The homeowner should (in theory) not have to go out and buy equipment that cleans the neighbor's cigarette smoke out of the air in HER apartment. Neighbor's cigarette smoke should not be in her apartment in the first place. In theory. (also, there could be a smoker on the negative-pressure side of the apartment fitted with Joe's solution-fan. In that instance, you get cigarette smoke regardless of which window you open. Two cigarette smokers, one on either side, could essentially render someone's apartment uninhabitable by them.

I'm not concluding this is good legislation. Somebody asked how this is American. In America, we protect peoples' rights up to the point where it infringes on someone else's rights. You wouldn't agree that your neighbor has the right to come over and cut down your tree. But I'll bet I can find a million Americans who would protect their right to breathe clean air in their own home FAR more vigorously than they would protect their tree.

[Superman]

Maybe smoking where your smoke gets into someone else's home should be prohibited more vigorously than someone cutting down a tree on your property. One potentially causes serious health complications while the other does not. Heck, you could always prevent the tree theifs by engaging a security company to protect them. Or buy property that is treeless. Or whatever.....

Again, I'm not saying I agree with this legislation. Heck, I'm a smoker. I'm just saying if we took a poll, or vote, it could be that Americans want protection from cigarette smoke MORE than they want protection from tree thieves. Maybe that disagrees with your preference. Okay, then perhaps blowing smoke into someone's home should be a permitted, along with stealing others' trees.

[the]

Originally Posted by mjshira

I happen to not like smoking, having quit. I just dislike telling other people what to do MORE. The more we as society tell others to do or not do, the less freedom we will have as individuals to decide what to do and not do.

So if you are living in an apartment, and a new guy moves in the unit below you and does 3 packs a day, with his smoke coming out their window and into yours, you're ok with that, because you don't want to infringe on his freedom to do what he wants?

[HardDrive]

I dunno.

The whole anti-smoking crusade is a little overboard sometimes, but I can see some logic here.

What if it wasn't smoke? What if it was paint fumes or some other harmful chemical smell? If it were just strong cooking odors or perfumes of some kind, thats on thing, but second hand smoke is clearly not good for anyone.

Let us all join hands and walk into our bright future living in a nanny state.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

This ones easy. Get a window vent fan that exhausts out that window. It will suck clean fresh air in the other windows then shove it out towards the apartment with the smokers inside.

Just for grins they can hang some garlic, old meat or fart in the general direction of the fan, which will then deliver the aroma to the smokers. Hope they enjoy it as much as the other occupants enjoyed the smoke smell.

You poor, dumb ba$stard, you want to actually solve the problem rather than enact a law

You, Sir, have one foot in the La Brea Tar Pits

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

The whole anti-smoking crusade is a little overboard sometimes, but I can see some logic here.

Agreed. I could care less if folks smoke, I used to and understand the enjoyment/urge, but if I have to smell the second hand smoke in my own home then I have an issue. My MIL lives in an apartment complex and one of her downstairs neighbors is an elderly chain smoker. You can literally smell the smoke as you approach the common entry landing. My MIL has to keep 1 or her 2 windows permanently closed otherwise the smell will invade her whole living room/kitchen. Not good. That said if the neighbor wants to smoke I see no reason to prevent that but maybe some sort of air purification system needs to be mandated - if such a system exists.

[Mule]

I've got it! Outlaw FIRE!!! Why deal with the symptom when you can attack the problem. Where there's no fire, there's no smoke.

Next problem please.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by stevepaa

Is the question related to the ordinance or the emails from those against it.

tell me you are not that stupid Steve. I don't think you are, at least I hope not.

No, this is not an American point of view, banning personal liberties.

Alcohol is a much greater public nuisance, clearly should be banned.

No reason anyone needs a car that gets less than 50 mpg, crush the rest.

Morbidly obese people are offensive to me, they are not capable of making apropriate choices for themselves and should no longer be allowed to do so. They government needs to start directing diets for anyone who weighs more than 110 pounds.



Stupid people have stupid kids, they should be banned from procreating.

If the smoking ban is okay, we need to get serious about looking out for people and institute some changes. You guys supporting this idea need to get some of these other things I mention in place right away.

[SlowToady]

I agree. And I also find hip-hop culture offensive. And SUVs. And Vegan-ism; not only offensive, but (apparently) unhealthy. Since they can't make good decisions either, we shall also enact a ban on that. The speaking of a language other than English also offends me, because I don't understand it. Ban. Oh and....

Wait a minute....just who exactly gets to decide what's offensive and should be banned?

Ah, yea, right, the (paid) lobbyists. Yep, business as usual.

Originally Posted by Tobra

tell me you are not that stupid Steve. I don't think you are, at least I hope not.

No, this is not an American point of view, banning personal liberties.

Alcohol is a much greater public nuisance, clearly should be banned.

No reason anyone needs a car that gets less than 50 mpg, crush the rest.

Morbidly obese people are offensive to me, they are not capable of making apropriate choices for themselves and should no longer be allowed to do so. They government needs to start directing diets for anyone who weighs more than 110 pounds.



Stupid people have stupid kids, they should be banned from procreating.

If the smoking ban is okay, we need to get serious about looking out for people and institute some changes. You guys supporting this idea need to get some of these other things I mention in place right away.