J D Power Survey- Buick??

[Mo_Gearhead]

2007 J D Power survey. Which car is the most dependable? (Fewest repairs)

1. Buick
2. Lexus
3. Cadillac
4. Mercury
5. Honda

Are the American car company's making real progress ...or just another case of figures lie and liars figure?

Comments?

(Buick actually tied with Lexus for first place)

[legion]

GM has put a HUGE emphasis on quality...finally (IMO).

Hopefully this is a case of GM really doing what was needed. If I learn that they paid of JD Power (unlikely) or tampered with their results, I will have lost all faith in GM.

[frogger]

Is this "initial" quality or the longer term quality metric?

[rammstein]

I can say Honda deserves being in the top 5. I drive my wife's Accord now. While it has almost no soul and pleasures me barely more than my dishwasher, it NEVER ticks me off. Its one step from the cheapest one they sell, and yet all of the materials and switches are nice. The engine is the 4-banger, and it revs nicely and never sounds bad. The automatic (blech, wish it was a stick) is great- for an Auto anyhow. The car feels like it has 200,000 miles to go easily, without major repairs. It just works properly, always. My only point of contention is the tire choice. I think they were picked because they will last for like 50,000 miles, but they are also rock hard and have the grip of a buttered noodle.

I also rode recently in a Pontiac G6. While I have to say for a GM product the quality was WAY better than I expected, I can't picture buying one at the same price as an Accord. But they probably sell for less, in which case I understand the JD Power rating. It certainly was a shock, after the last Grand-Am I was in. They've come a long way for sure.

[Mo_Gearhead]

The study was based on responses from more than 53,000 original owners of 2004 model-year vehicles,

[Porsche_monkey]

Maybe they are owned by 80 year olds that never drive.

[Noah930]

I'm a bit surprised. I know Buick's been hovering near the top for quite a few years, now. But to actually be #1 is very surprising to me. I never knew how JD Power actually rated "satisfaction," so I always wondered if Buick's numbers were somehow propped up by their buyers' low expectations. But if they're going on actual numbers of defects/problems, I'm still surprised.

My in-laws are Buick people (they've got 3 of them--a '97, '02, & '04, IIRC), so I've had quite a bit of personal Buick experience the last couple years. Nothing fatal ever happened to any of them, but there were frequent, recurrent niggling things. Not crapmobiles, but certainly not as trouble-free as my wife's '05 Acura. The Rendezvoux had a constant battery drain, which was untraceable. Might be linked to the fact that you could never turn the stereo totally off (a barely perceptible but constant hiss came from the speakers, even when everything was turned off). Lumbar support knob that broke every couple months, but got stopped from being fixed after a couple times as it never worked, anyway. Very quickly wearinig suspension pieces.

Of course, the personal killer for me is the absolute garbage way in which these cars handle. If you like shepherding an overstuffed couch (which is still oddly uncomfortable) down the highway, then has Buick got a lineup of cars for you. Now I understand the term landyacht. Accelerator, brakes, and steering are all so isolated from the driver, that it truly is like signaling down instructions from bridge to boiler room.

[frogger]

How many American cars are available with a manual transmission? Out of those, how many are fun to drive? Just wondering.

[Nostril Cheese]

My mother and stepfather recently visited me and rented some huge land yacht of a new Buick. I was surprised at how nice that car was. full leather, awesome sound system. Smooth and quiet too.

[legion]

Originally Posted by frogger

How many American cars are available with a manual transmission? Out of those, how many are fun to drive? Just wondering.

Off the top of my head:

Chrysler Crossfire
Chrysler 300C
Dodge Charger
Dodge Magnum
Dodge Viper
Pontiac G6
Pontiac GTO
Pontiac Solstice
Saturn Sky
Ford Mustang
Ford GT
Chevy Corvette
Cadillac CTS
Cadillac XLR

And only one of the above is FWD.

There are also numerous cars that domestics have a significant stake in...

Subaru WRX (okay, GM sold its interest in Subaru, but it did own it when introduced)
Mazda RX8
Mazdaspeed 3

I also think the pick up truck are a hell of a lot of fun with a manual...

[frogger]

Thanks for the list.

[onewhippedpuppy]

As a previous GM hater........I currently own two GM vehicles. My truck is a 2000 Silverado, with 137k. While the interior fabrics and plastics are not impressive, they aren't offensive, especially for a truck. After a bit of basic maintenance, and new outer tie rods, it runs and drives like new. Rack and pinion steering, 4 wheel discs, not your typical archaic truck. Best of all, even with that many hard miles, not a single rattle or squeak, even with the extended cab 3rd door.

Other is a 2004 Cadillac SRX. Interior materials are top notch, even though the door vinyl looks a bit cheap. Leather is better than either of my BMWs ever dreamed of, and the seats are amazingly comfortable and well bolstered. 325 HP Northstar V8 makes it really move, and the noises are better than my old BMW 540. Really, that's what it reminds me of. A bigger, taller 540. It just eats the highway alive, great road car. Great steering, great brakes. It did beat out a Cayanne and X5 in a C&D comparo, so it's no slouch.

Many of their past offerings were laughable, but they have seriously improved. While many of their models are still fairly uninspired, the quality is improving in leaps and bounds. I think (hope) that they finally get it, because I'd love to see an American maker compete. The new CTS and Pontiac G8 are seriously cool cars, ones that I would consider. The base Corvette and Z06 is a performance steal. Solstice is interesting, especially in turbo form. The new GMC and Chevy trucks are also very good. New Saturn/GMC/Buick SUVs are a perfect size, and quite nice. They are certainly a company heading in the right direction.

[the]

What exactly are they measuring with this particular survey? Is it an objective or subjective measure?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Not half bad for a company that was recently cranking out Cavaliers.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by frogger

How many American cars are available with a manual transmission? Out of those, how many are fun to drive? Just wondering.

not many for both questions. A few of them are the same car too(solstice/sky)

[speeder]

It's initial quality, basically how many reported defects/returns to dealer in the first 90 days of ownership. It's a good indicator and one they have used forever. Buicks are incredibly well-made cars, (really), this has been true for at least a decade. The absolute used car bargain of the century is a Buick w/ the 3.8 V-6, they get great mileage as well. Boring, but the best car on the road as a transportation appliance.

If you don't believe me, ask a tech at a Buick dealer. Great cars.

[craigster59]

Originally Posted by rammstein

. While it has almost no soul and pleasures me barely more than my dishwasher, it NEVER ticks me off.They've come a long way for sure.
but they are also rock hard and have the grip of a buttered noodle.

This is taken out of context, but can be submitted to the "Greatest Pelican Quotes of '07"

[CurtEgerer]

The problem with JD Power is the rankings are based on surveys of owners, not hard data. So if someone is generally happy with their car/dealer, or are fiercely loyal to the brand, they would be less apt to report a problem to JD, or perceive something as a problem. And many would be reluctant to admit they bought a bad car, unless it is really bad. If somebody hates their dealer, they're going to be much more likely to be unhappy with their car and report problems to JD.

I think this is why Lexus has been dropping on their lists lately. The product is the same, the quality is the same. But the perception of the brand is changing to 'just another car' rather than this mythical automobile many perceived it to be when it was the car de jour.

It would be interesting to plot JD Powers survey results versus marketing campaign effectveness over the years and see if the curves align.

[cairns]

"The problem with JD Power is the rankings are based on surveys of owners, not hard data. So if someone is generally happy with their car/dealer, or are fiercely loyal to the brand, they would be less apt to report a problem to JD, or perceive something as a problem. And many would be reluctant to admit they bought a bad car, unless it is really bad. If somebody hates their dealer, they're going to be much more likely to be unhappy with their car and report problems to JD.

I think this is why Lexus has been dropping on their lists lately. The product is the same, the quality is the same. But the perception of the brand is changing to 'just another car' rather than this mythical automobile many perceived it to be when it was the car de jour.

It would be interesting to plot JD Powers survey results versus marketing campaign effectveness over the years and see if the curves align."
+1

I place very little stock in a JD Powers survey. Most new owners don't want to admit their purchase might have been a mistake and still have the "new car high".

It's kind of like Consumer Reports saying a Dodge Neon is the best new car buy- and the worst used car buy. Or Motor Trend's farcical "Car of the Year".

But I do think Buicks are durable appliances. A long way away from the stylish and powerful Invictas/Electras/LeSabres/GS 455s etc. of my youth.

[jshape]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Other is a 2004 Cadillac SRX. Interior materials are top notch, even though the door vinyl looks a bit cheap. Leather is better than either of my BMWs ever dreamed of, and the seats are amazingly comfortable and well bolstered. 325 HP Northstar V8 makes it really move, and the noises are better than my old BMW 540. Really, that's what it reminds me of. A bigger, taller 540. It just eats the highway alive, great road car. Great steering, great brakes. It did beat out a Cayanne and X5 in a C&D comparo, so it's no slouch.

My 2006 Cadillac SRX V8 that I got in October of 2005 replaced my 2003 BMW 540i. I really needed AWD here in MI and was impressed by the SRX's fit and finish as well as its interior, handling and performance. I've put about 30,000 miles on it in two years and have had nothing other than a bulb go out. GM seems to be getting things right these days. I looked at Volvo, Cayenne, X5 and Infiniti before buying the SRX.