Teachers with Guns

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Should teachers who have concealed carry permits be allowed to carry inside the school?

legion · 10-11-2007, 04:36 AM

Hmm...how did I vote?

I think psycho emo kids will be less inclined to shoot up their schools if they don't think they will have a chance to kill a few students/teachers first. Notice how I don't that killing them would be a deterrent--I don't think it would be. Most of these kids understand that they have 10-30 minutes of unimpeded "shoot 'em up" time before the SWAT team arrives on the scene and it becomes a standoff--one that always ends with the shooter(s) dead. As they usually die of self-inflicted wounds, I think of this phenomena as more of "suicide with a statement".

Jims5543 · 10-11-2007, 05:03 AM

How about we teach our kids to respect other kids and not pick on them when they are different?

Probably never happen in this day and age. I am honestly surprised shootings do not happen in every school in the USA. I used to sit in HS in NY and watch in amazement at the A-holes tormenting the emo type kids because they did not fit he mold. Jocks were the worst offenders.

I didn't get picked on, I kept my head down, blended in and did not mess with the A-holes. I kept clear of them. I was in HS because I had to go I could not wait to graduate and get away from all the A-holes. We had lots of them in Longwood Long Island in the 80's.

When I heard of Columbine I thought to myself that I was surprised this did not happen sooner. I am still amazed it does not happen more than it does.

Will giving a teacher a gun stop it? Probably not, the teacher will get the first bullet then.

Giving everyone guns will not solve the problem the problem is much deeper than that.

Flame away.

berettafan · 10-11-2007, 05:05 AM

**** no.

i'm a lifetime nra member but that is one damned stupid idea. that anyone would even think about answering 'yes' is scary as hell and i hope such a person is never in a position to make such a decision.

legion · 10-11-2007, 05:10 AM

I could guarantee that 30 years ago in the fall, no one would have dreamed of shooting up a school in October.

Why?

It's the beginning of hunting season and a lot of shotguns/rifles were sitting in teachers' (and students' if it was a high school) cars waiting to be used after school.

The key word for me voting "yes" was "trained".

"Allow trained teachers to carry a gun?" Yes.

"Allow teachers to carry a gun?" No.

berettafan · 10-11-2007, 05:21 AM

'Trained' simply means the teacher will be more efficient at using the firearm. I will not allow my childs safety to be put at higher risk because some $40k/year cowboy thinks he's gonna be a hero.

Or maybe the 'trained' teacher got a call from the mortgage company last night and his home is being foreclosed on. Or maybe the teacher is tired of being snubbed by others because she's fat and has a body odor problem.

When people talk about firearms putting their owners at risk this is precisely the situation they will be correct about. I can see it now...."yo tyronne, Mr. Jones has a 9mm in his back pocket, let's get it!"

This idea is beyond ludicrous.

legion · 10-11-2007, 05:25 AM

That's a lot of "what if's" berreta. And so far, none of those things have happened.

What has happened is kids do bring guns to schools, and they have 10-30 minutes of unimpeded "shoot 'em up" time because that is how long it takes a SWAT team to show up and "assess the situation".

Tim Walsh · Tim Walsh's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by berettafan

When people talk about firearms putting their owners at risk this is precisely the situation they will be correct about. I can see it now...."yo tyronne, Mr. Jones has a 9mm in his back pocket, let's get it!"

This is the part that scares me more than a teacher with a firearm. If the students know it's in a desk drawer and the teacher goes to the bathroom...... There were times last year when I wish my teacher-wife was packing, she was in a real scary school, with riots, guns and monthly bomb squad visits. I wouldn't worry so much about her or any of the teachers, but the kids getting their hands on it

berettafan · 10-11-2007, 05:35 AM

Legion those what if's haven't happened because teachers don't carry guns to school.

legion · 10-11-2007, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berettafan

Legion those what if's haven't happened because teachers don't carry guns to school.

And all of the students shootings have happened for precisely the same reason.

rammstein · 10-11-2007, 05:44 AM

I dunno about this one...

I believe everyone has a right to carry a firearm- but schools also have a right to make rules about what their employees do. They have a right to carry guns, but schools have a right to say don't come here if you do.

With that out of the way, what should schools do? I'd hesitate on the teachers with guns thing, because most of my teachers were pretty unhappy, unstable, and generally as much of a threat with a gun as a disgruntled student would be. I think ultimately, perhaps hired security roaming the halls might be better. Tough thing, again, is getting a security guard who isn't just a pissed off loner who couldn't make it as a cop. Retired police-officers would be pretty good, as they are on pention, this would be extra income, and they'd be happy to start with. Point is, whoever has the gun shouldn't be waiting deep down inside for the opportunity to use it.

I also must agree with treating the source in ADDITION to the symptoms, as Jim mentioned. I can't tell you how many times I watched nerds get screwed with while teachers looked on. I had a conversation with one poor guy who was a nerd, an Indian (the kind from India, which in my town made him stand out REALLY bad), weak as hell (turns out from cancer), and was considering suicide. Seriously. These pricks at school messed with him SO bad. I made an effort to help the guy out, and got some friends of mine involved in keeping an eye on the guy. I could TOTALLY see a guy like that snapping. I am glad he was smart enough to talk to some of us about it.

So, I guess my answer might be highly screened security guards, coupled with teachers who, when they see a kid getting shoved into a locker and tripped and whatnot, are REQUIRED to intervene on pain of job-loss. It sounds harsh, but the reality that kids who get picked on live is harsh.

Also, though, sometimes the kids who get beat up ask for it. They 'poke the bear', so to speak, and then cry when the bear bites. There was a kid two grades under us in high school- he was the younger brother of a guy we hung out with. This kid used to make a point of being an obnoxious prick and messing with bullies. Finally one day, he got punched in the face and his nose was broken. IMO, I knew that he had brought it on in a way. But his parents sued the school for a couple $100k, and won. So, this is a tough issue to tackle. But step ONE would be teachers who at least get involved, and parents getting involved in encouraging their kids not to mess with nerds or weirdos.

Long answer to a question without a short answer.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by rammstein

I dunno about this one...

I believe everyone has a right to carry a firearm- but schools also have a right to make rules about what their employees do. They have a right to carry guns, but schools have a right to say don't come here if you do.

And who pays attention to those rules? Only the people who are no threat to begin with. The nuts ignore those rules, they ignore federal and state gun laws, they ignore laws against shooting people, they ignore EVERY law. No law deters them. And every single one of these school shootings has only ended when A) more guns arrived on the scene or B) the shooter killed himself. Not one has ended in negotiations. I don't even think one has ended because the shooter ran out of ammo. Such nuts can only be stopped by force. The question is: do you want that force to be a phone call and long police response time away? Or do you want people already on the scene to have the ability to stop it from escalating? School security guards are little more than mall security. It's a joke.

Just between PPOT and me, I carry in plenty of places that are off limits to carry. Such are the only places where these kinds of shootings happen - where law-abiding citizens cannot legally carry guns. In VA it's mostly schools (I never go there anyway) and restaurants that serve alcohol (I always carry in such places, but don't drink if I do). Fed. law bans carrying in a post office. Sorry. I ignore that one too. Better judged by 12 than carried by six. And I have plenty of reason to fear for my safety in these silly "gun-free" places.

dtw · 10-11-2007, 06:17 AM

I'd prefer teachers carried big black leather whips. Yeah, and black leather boots and Catholic school girl uniforms. No pantyhose - just garter belts and stockings. Yeah...ok I gotta go write my congressman.

berettafan · 10-11-2007, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion

And all of the students shootings have happened for precisely the same reason.

i think what you mean to say is 'those school shootings MAY have been stopped short if teachers were allowed to carry guns in school'

Zef · Zef's Garage

How about we teach our kids to respect other kids and not pick on them when they are different?

Yup...this is the key of that problem...just check the parents...and you'll understand...My wife is a teacher...when she meet the parents...all suddenly become clear...!

berettafan · 10-11-2007, 06:24 AM

and btw, if you want a poll that says 'is it possible that the recent school shootings could have ended quicker with less injury/loss of life if teachers were allowed to carry guns in school?' then go ahead and post it. the answer is a very obvious 'yes'. it's a simple answer to a simple question. and i do mean 'simple'.

but to be fair you would also need to post an additional poll which asked 'is it likely that we would see an increase in school shootings if teachers were allowed to carry guns in schools?'.

RickM · RickM's Garage

I wouldn't feel comfortable with a teacher carrying.
Besides, kids in some of the rougher schools will know where to get a gun...from their teacher. I can already see three punks jumping Ms. Haversham for her Lady Smith.

Seems to me most of the shootings have been predictable but with no effective mechanism in place to deal with a disturbed kid.

SlowToady · 10-11-2007, 06:34 AM

In case anyone is wondering, there have been a few more recent school shootings. I don't watch the dumbassVision, er, Television, so I don't know if major news outlets are carrying the stories.

legion · 10-11-2007, 06:34 AM

The poll asks: "Allow trained teachers to carry a gun?"

There are a lot of issues surrounding this.

The assumptions I made when answering this question were that "trained" included a psychological evaluation, and the gun would be on the teacher's person at all times.

David McLaughlin · David McLaughlin's Garage

Too many school shootings!
It's time to stop them somehow. I voted yes even though I hate guns, but if someone in the school could take out a shooter before one more student gets killed then I'm all for it. At this point, I'd love for all schools to have at least one teacher who was a Seal or Ranger and have the means to stop a maniac.
It's gotta stop and no amount of the leftie gun laws are gonna do it!