Buddhists?

[kstar]

I've added emphasis in bold.

Originally Posted by Superman

You continue to be a rich source of entertainment. Does Ethics work the same way? Either there is a reality out there or there is not. Do you understand your own assumption when you conclude that religion is something you can just decide for yourself? In other words, either there is a God, and there is a framework for our relationship with that God..........or there is not. If there is not then sure, just make it up as you go along. And be sure it's nice and convenient for you. But if there really is a God, and if there really is a framework for our relationship with Him, then the religion you made up for yourself is convenient.........and useless. Do you get to make up stuff like "wrong" and "right" also?

Isn't that what the thousands (tens of thousands?) of the world's religions already do? And isn't it very common for individuals to further edit/rationalize to make a particular religion more palatable?

You seem to speak of some absolute and "correct" religion, the "framework for our relationship with that God". Which one would that be?

What religion or set of rules do you follow absolutely?

Buddhism is the opposite of institutionalized religion, IMHO.

Best,

Kurt

[The Gaijin]

Originally Posted by svandamme

it's not something that is spread around with missionaries, where the believers go out to convert people, in fact i think that would be contrary to Buddhism, i don't think anybody does that, Todd, can you confirm?

Many Buddhist based cults around the world. A whole chain of Japanese resturants here in New York City where the workers (mostly Japanese and American converts) get no pay and hand over their tips.


"don't do anything excessive, concentrate on what you do, do it right and "be good"" A nice brainwashing techinque indeed. Makes for perfect dishwashers, cooks and waitstaff - and making somebody, somewhere, very rich...

[M.D. Holloway]

Life is suffering....I was at a Zen center in RI years ago - sat for 8 hours. Thats 8 hours I'll never get back. Talk about suffering!

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

Many Buddhist based cults around the world. A whole chain of Japanese resturants here in New York City where the workers (mostly Japanese and American converts) get no pay and hand over their tips.

i'de say that's got nothing to do with Buddhism other then abuse of the name

those converts need to think about what they believe in , instead of just following anybody

[livi]

I stand corrected although I still believe it is numbered among the World Religions. The lable is not of interest to me anyway. As always Stijn seems to be very well informed and I can certainly feel a lot of symphaty toward the cornerstones of Buddhism although they go against the natural instinct of homo sapience as of any other species. The very notion of ignoring all your natural cravings (money, more money, climbing the social ladder, materialistic resources, your neighbor´s wife) aiming to get a leg up in the gene pool race seems a tough path to wander. At least if one is serious about it.

[nostatic]

any belief system can be used for personal enlightenment as well as for control and power. In other words, gullible, weak minded people are everywhere as are the unscrupulous who thirst for power.

Buddha insisted that people not "listen" to him and blindly follow what he said. He encouraged people to do the experiment, ask questions, and make their own choices. There isn't any core dogma within Buddhism, just a set of principles that you can use to help guide you life. Enlightenment isn't a destination, it is a journey. The point is not perfection but just to get a little more free from suffering, and in the meantime, hopefully helping your fellow travelers do the same. There is no right or wrong.

The cults are an extraordinary perversion of Buddhism and are that in name only. Christians claim the same about cult associated with their religion. But in the bible there is a lot of killing and destruction to hang your cult hat on. In Buddhism you have to stretch pretty far to go there...but people will do just about anything.

There is extremism everywhere in life. Even some of the non-cult Buddhist go a bit far for my taste (eg the famous Vietnam photo of the monks self-immolating), but that is their path.

And Gaijin, I assume your exposure to Buddhism was in Japan? Well, as you know Japan has some culture issues (especially to a Westerner) so take some of that with a grain of salt. Some sects of Zen I could never do...

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by livi

The very notion of ignoring all your natural cravings (money, more money, climbing the social ladder, materialistic resources, your neighbor´s wife) aiming to get a leg up in the gene pool race seems a tough path to wander. At least if one is serious about it.

it doesn't have to be that hardcore
not everybody is cut out to become a Zen Master or Lama

the 4 Noble Truths and the 8 fold Path is just a way to make life easier

you can take em as serious as you like
you take em either as a loose guideline and live a life without terribly big compromises (unless off course you are an axe murderer, in which case i think it's not compatible without some pretty major compromise in lifestyle),

or you make em your life's goal, become vegitarian, study everything you can,give up your worldly possessions, say goodbye to everybody you know, and headover to India, Thailand, Japan
or basically any place you think you best work and meditate towards that goal

either way, Budhism really only requires you to accept the 4 truths
the 8 fold path and everything else, is just up for grabs
you can't do wrong either way, you can only try
there's no hell, no heaven

the "reincarnation" stuff doesn't even mean there is an afterlife or that your current "ego" will remain what it is
that's not what drives Buddhism in it's core, maybe Tibetan Buddhists focus more on that part, but that's just one "branch" of Buddhism , Zen Buddhism is completely different, different approach, different methods and neither "branch" is right or wrong as a whole, they might not be right for you, that's another story, but they all share the same Truth's and Path, they just try to work it out in a different way... one can either try to follow a way that exists, or figure out his own way, nothing wrong with that