Biodiesel in L.A. - observations...

dd74 · 10-30-2007, 09:01 PM

I've seen quite a few old Mercedes diesels (from the 80s) with stickers on the rear bumper that read "biodiesel powered." I take it as a sort of trend, and somewhat dismiss the bio part of it, mostly because...

1) Where does one even get biodiesel fuel?
2) Relating to #1, one night outside of Bob's Big Boy, I watched some questionable looking characters pumping a vat of old french fry grease of its contents and driving away. I thought then, is this biofuel of some sort?
3) I'd hate to wreck a very capable Mercedes diesel with questionable fuel. In short, who regulates "biofuel?"
4) The caveat to my caution about this is the Mercedes 300 sedan and wagon themselves, which are nearly as available as Miatas out here; just a couple grand more. Personally, I think they're very cool cars.

I don't want to be ignorant of this subject, so I'm hoping for some enlightenment. But can a diesel Mercedes really run on biofuel/biodiesel? And where do you get this fuel in a city like Los Angeles? What about vegetable oil? Kerosene? Etc.

Thanks for the help and insight.

Danny_Ocean · 10-30-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dd74

3) In short, who regulates "biofuel?"

No-one yet, but give the California Legislature a few more sessions and it will be.

Read all about BioDiesel here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

snowman · 10-30-2007, 09:28 PM

I sold my old 79 MB diesel to a marine who converted it to run on bio diesel. It is a trend here. I don't know how big it is, but you see them enough that it must be significant, ie 100's of them.

Chuck Moreland · 09:35 PM

There are several different approaches.

Some vehicles are converted to run on SVO (straight vegetable oil). And there are numerous approaches to this.

You can buy commercially available biodiesel which will run in most diesels without modification. Here is a directory to find stations offering biodiesel in any area.
here
Prices run comparable to diesel, maybe a little higher.

You can process vegetable oil into biodeisel yourself, then run it in an unmodified diesel engine.

An internet search will turn up a wealth of information.

I've run commercially available biodiesel in my truck with no noticable differences. However it does clean the system of gunk, and it is likely that a fuel filter change will soon be required.

bt1211 · 10-30-2007, 10:02 PM

www.greasecar.com sells the most conversion parts. Its about a $1000 if you do it yourself or appox. $2000 to have a shop to do the install.

I have been thinking about doing this on a friend's diesel truck.

dd74 · 10-30-2007, 10:35 PM

Thanks, guys, particularly Chuck and bt1211. This is great stuff to start with.

bt1211- what kind of truck?

notfarnow · 10-31-2007, 04:41 AM

There are two ways of using waste vegetable oil as fuel in a diesel engine:

1) BIODIESEL Modify the vegetable oil so that it can be run in your main tank, like regular diesel. You'll often hear it described as B20, B50, B100 etc... that is the ration of biodiesel/regular diesel. B100 is 100% biodiesel. Biodiesel can be run as regular diesel with the following exceptions:
-Some older diesels will have a hard time. Biodeiesel will really clean out your tanks & lines, and that will often plug filters, or worse yet damage injectors & injector pumps. Also, biodiesel tends to eat through rubber hoses & seals, causing fuel system problems. Neither of these issues tend to bother newer diesels.
-Biodiesel has a tendency to gel in the cold, often more so than straight vegetable oil. This means you may have to heat your fuel system in colder climates.

2) Straight Vegetable Oil /SVO Modify the car, so that it can run straight vegetable oil as fuel. In order for vegetable oil to burn properly, it needs to be heated to about 70* Celcius (sorry, that obnoxious metric/imperial barrier). This means that you can't (or shouldn't) start a cold diesel engine on vegetable oil, hence the need for 2 tanks. So, you start the car on diesel, and once it's warmed up you switch to vegetable oil. Most people heat the vegetable oil with coolant heat, and use common fuel switching valves from dueal tank trucks. Depending on your climate, you may also want to use a 12V heater to boost the temperature, as long as your alternator can handle the additional 30amp draw.

I've never touched biodiesel, mostly because in my climate I'd have top heat the fuel system anyway, so I figured it would be easier to go whole-hog and do a vegetable oil conversion.

I've been doing it for 5 years now. I've converted my old 87 Jetta (RIP, after 596000 kms), my 96 Jetta , my dad's 1981 Mercedes Benz 300SD, my father-in law's 93 Jetta and my Suzuki Samurai. have logged about 120k miles on vegetable oil, and my father has done about 60k miles since I converted his car 3 years ago.

You'll hear horror stories about clogged injectors, blown injection pumps, etc... but it's almost always someone who either hasn't filtered the oil carefully, or hasn't heated it enough.

I dewater & filter VERY carefully in the garage, to ensure that we don't have problems on the road. We do this with BOTH our cars, so it has to work EVERY DAY. My wife would never tolerate plugged filters on the side of the road.

One thing to keep in mind about Mercedes diesels... they seem to be an exception when it comes to the need to heat the oil. Many people run 50/50 diesel/vegoil in their main tank unheated. That is obviously climate dependant.

bt1211 · 10-31-2007, 04:45 AM

It's a '89 dually crewcab.

I have been looking over craigslist for a car for myself to convert. I'm thinking about a car I can use as a daily commuter. A diesel powered, earily/mid 90 'Benz seems to be the way to go.

I have enough cars at this time and too many project so this could be pie in the sky.

notfarnow · 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bt1211

It's a '89 dually crewcab.

I have been looking over craigslist for a car for myself to convert. I'm thinking about a car I can use as a daily commuter. A diesel powered, earily/mid 90 'Benz seems to be the way to go.

I have enough cars at this time and too many project so this could be pie in the sky.

Just avoid any car that's been converted by Lovecraft. They are the MotorMeister of the SVO world.

My next car is going to be a benz. The VWs have worn me down, but mine is being OK this month so I'm giving it another year. Upside to VWs is they are the EASIEST to convert

Down in the states, you can get a decent mid-late 90s e300d for ~14k. I think that's a hell of a deal. They're blocked for imortation by Mercedes Canada, so I can't bring one up.

HardDrive · 10-31-2007, 08:13 AM

This being Seattle, there is a bio diesel station a mile from my house! They also deliver bio home heating oil. Modern VWs and old mercedes seem to be popular choices in these parts, although you do see the occasional contractor running his truck off bio.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Mythbusters did a segment on this. They took a mercedes diesel and did back to back tests, one with diesel fuel and one with used french fry oil - they didn't do any mods to the car other than rigging a system to meter the fuel. The french fry oil got slightly lower mileage, but it ran fine.

notfarnow · 10-31-2007, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by widebody911

Mythbusters did a segment on this. They took a mercedes diesel and did back to back tests, one with diesel fuel and one with used french fry oil - they didn't do any mods to the car other than rigging a system to meter the fuel. The french fry oil got slightly lower mileage, but it ran fine.

That's part of the problem though... you can get just about ANY diesel to run on unheated vegetable oil. It'll work... but how well, and for how long?

Mercedes seem to handle vegetable oil really well, even with unheated 75/25 blends. Even then, you can kill them dead by getting water in the fuel or not filtering it well.

Nostril Cheese · 10-31-2007, 08:47 AM

There seems to be a few people making bucks restoring old MB turbodiesels here in Oregon. You can get biodiesel at a lot of gas stations here as well.

CarreraDan · 10-31-2007, 09:23 AM

Someday when I find a station with biodeisel I am going to try it in my 300DT. The main problem around here is no one sells biodeisel. I think you guys would be very surprised at what a old diesel benz will run on. They had a thread at www.mercedesshop.com about what you have used instead of diesel, guys had run them on motor oil, transmission fluid, pretty much anything you could get into the tank the car would run. I am not that brave as new injection pumps are very expensive and mine is a low mileage car so I don't want to mess it up. I do hear they run much smoother on bio compared to low sulfur diesel--one day I will find some and try it out. Here is a picture of my other German toy.

It has been a fun project and is actually now a semi daily driver--not bad considering the old girl had sat in a barn for three years.