I would rather have a Beer with Dan, and talk Lab's.
or as Static suggest..crank up the tunes..let the RPM flow.
Rika

Dan, it is a fact, not fiction that crime is going up in areas where illegals hide out. How many here have had their car hit by an uninsured non-English speaking person??? I guess it is wrong to punish criminals, just keep turning your head and pretend it isn't there, meanwhile our ERs are going broke taking care of these illegals. Any one who has worked hard to build a business and wealth, but has been robbed don't tend to take a soft stance on punishment. Trespassing is illegal where posted, our family farm in upstate NY has signs saying you will be shot, they are legal and my family and the people who watch over our property mean it. I don't work my ass off just so some one can just take it away from me:mad:
We has tried being nice, it didn't work, now it is time to step it up and actually enforse the laws, that means busting those businesses who hire illegals as well as those who harbor them.
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If you see a sign like this, and igore it, too bad if you get shot.
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Don't want to be hated, don't break the law.

They do what the U.S. doesn't do.

They have a different value system than we do.

Their govt. is FAR more corrupt than one could even dream about accusing ours of being.

We could be more like Mexico, adopt some of their policies, some of their values (which aren't ALL bad, mind you).

But we don't.

We have our own, which most Americans are rightly proud of.

That is what I am thinking... I'm no rocket scientist but it wasn't real hard to figure out where the fires were happening and not wander into the area.

You're making the very false assumption that we can only have the benefit of Mexico's good laws if we adopt their corruption too. It's not corrupt to vigorously enforce one's border. Mexico doesn't do everything wrong. No country does. Our laws, not our will (or lack thereof) to enforce them, should reflect our nation's values.

Why does that matter? Do we really want to judge ourselves by that kind of standard?

Talk about your moral equivalence...

+1000

Noah, This "discussion" - ahem, immediately got "out of hand" when Jeff called illegals or the groups that are concerned about them "F*ckers" and then dropped another F bomb. It never was posted as a legitimate request for opinions, it was POSTED as a hateful rant. It accelerated when Byron advocated in HUGE font that the solution to dealing a problem involving millions of people including children is to shoot them. Rick's more reasoned advocacy of the same solution isn't any the less pugnant to me. Let's just keep the record straight.

In my opinion, no the government shouldn't have done more to warn illegal aliens than they did - at least as far as I know. They should not have redeployed to cover wildlands where no known populations lived.

Not everyone who is illegal speaks ONLY Spanish anymore than everyone who is a legal citizen is fluent in English. For this reason it is prudent to issue warnings in the predominant languages of the area you are dealing with. French might have helped during Katrina, for example. During a life threatening catastrophy what are we trying to do; save lives or teach hard truths? I believe firefighters and rescue worker's primary job is to save human lives. Saving property comes in second place.

Finally Noah, I've never heard you be a hater or a jerk. I have had many AGREEMENTS with Rick and Byron on some issues. On illegal immigration (no, not "undocumented workers", I'm a Democrat not a PC-meister) we are far, far apart if the discussion is just a rant and not a recognition that these are living, breathing people.

which is why you should be angry the pro-illegal immigrant folks are trying to make hay on this deal. There were illegal busted stealing stuff at the aid stations and reselling it, how is that to you?
no it is not murder, maybe manslaughter if done by a private citizen, but that would be debateable if they were coming over your fence or in your window.


Tell them to go back or they will shoot. If they don't go back they get shot, sometimes they get shot even if they are going back

Back to the topic of this thread. It is utterly ridiculous to even talk about a suit like this, it has no basis, the plaintiffs have no standing.

The US helps others, even people we don't have contact with(like North Korea for example, a US naval vessel went to the aid of a N Korean flagged vessel under attack by Somali pirates recently).

How much is enough? We MUST secure our borders. This will hurt some poor latinos looking for a better life in this country, we all feel badly about that. Thing is, not everyone feels badly enough about it to be willing to give up America to illegal immigration.

It does not make me a racist when I say, "a large part of the healthcare crisis is due to illegal immigrants over burdening the system" or "uninsured illegal immigrants are a significant contributor to my increasing auto insurance rates." These are facts, not racist propaganda.

..

I think the point here, which he didn't expand on, is Mexico expresses such outrage that we make ANY attempt at all to enforce our borders. They print maps on the best places to illegally cross and their second largest source of income after oil revenue is that which their people living here send back home. So it's a bit of chutzpah for Mexico to have vigorous (and IMHO admirable) border enforcement of their own, while busting our balls for doing far, far less with our southern border.

DARISC, why then did you mention Mexico's corruption in the same post with their vigorous border enforcement? The two have nothing to do with each other. If they did, then one could also say our far less corrupt government is incapable of policing our own border. Say it ain't so! Is there a correlation there? Anyway, I don't think our gov't. is that much less corrupt than that of Mexico. It's just that we consider a lot of the stuff our gov't. does to be normal and legal, when it really is not and would make our Founding Fathers roll in their graves.

A WHOLE LOT of chutzpah! It infuriates me.

Govenator of NY Mark Spitzer is out of touch with reality.... he lives in a Mansion, and gets into a limo whenever he wants to go somewhere. He has all his meals, laundry, shopping done by someone else so what should he care if he screws everybody in NY. When he leaves office he gets on a plane and heads into the sunset to this vacation villa in the tropics. Someone probably whispered in his ear that it would be a good idea to give illegals drivers licenses, it would insure that they knew how to drive...and Govenator Spitzer being so out of touch with reality that his feet don't touch the ground agreed.

The guy who is left holding the bag of ***** is the poor citizen who is left behind to deal with the carnage that a fko like Spitzer leaves behind...

BUT let me clue you all into who that "poor citizen" is....ITS YOUR CHILDREN...cause its their lifestyle and opportunities that are being destroyed.... all those poor illegals are doing is dragging down every person in the USA down to their level, cause now U gotta share whats yours with them.

Your Parks, your roads, your hospitals, your schools, your social welfare services....its all somebody had to work hard for many generations to achieve. Now U have politicians willing to give it all away.

Lets take one simple foundation of the US GOVERNMENT which has made the US unique in the anals of history. Its the fact that rule of law is supposed to prevail, that the rich guy as well as the poor guy has the same standing under the law. However if you give a person who comes into your country ILLEGALLY meaning not lawfully, not in the proscribed manner a defacto legal status of giving them a drivers license. You have just kissed the RULE OF LAW Goodbye....Why obey the laws they nolonger have any meaning there are no consequences if you don't obey them...yu get a drivers license...next U vote..and can elect people that will take away what the other guy worked so hard to get.

Wow! You really don't get this?

Have a chat with your missus. She may be able to help you with the concept of seeking a better life in another land.

And I sure hope she's done all the paperwork right, otherwise she's probably in mortal danger under your roof.

Since my wife came here 100% legally and has never been out of status, even when her univ. screwed up some paperwork, I fail to see how she would ever be in mortal danger in my house or anywhere near a border. We got stopped by the Border Patrol in NM and they let her go. She never tried to break in anywhere. WTF are you talking about? Is wanting a better life in the US somehow an excuse for ignoring border security?

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HAHAHA!
Yeah, I give up. Gonna grab some lunch before my appetite is totally destroyed.

Um..Dude....I was being facetious.....:rolleyes:

Well just assume she didn't do her paperwork correctly and is now here illegally, on your sovereign territory.

So would you shoot her?

I am trying to point out the complete absurdity of you original statement here.

Noah, thanks for being the voice of diplomacy here. I think most people would agree that what's going on along the U.S./Mexico border is (or should be) a crime and should be stopped. The suggested mechanisms for this vary.

I was outraged when I heard this because we have a situation where good men and women are risking their lives to try and save the lives and property of the taxpayers that support their efforts, not to play humanitarian to a bunch of people that are breaking into our country for no other purpose than to steal from it.

Use whatever flowery euphemisms you want, but that's the reality. These people respect neither our laws, our traditions, our culture or our society. They see nothing wrong or immoral with what they're doing. Now on the one hand I'll be empathetic. I realize life is hard, and it's harder for people that are uneducated, unskilled, poor and disadvantaged. This is unfortunate, but reality. The question is, does being uneducated, unskilled, poor and disadvantaged give someone a "pass" to do whatever the hell they want?

I would submit that this is a VERY slippery slope. If we're going to hand out exceptions to the law based on socioeconomic status at the low end, what's stopping us from doing it at the upper end? Or the middle? Who determines where the line is drawn between who must comply with the law and who gets to skirt it? And if you make an exception, do we seriously not think our enemies would seek to exploit that in order to get their own people into our country? This is another very real concern in a post-9/11 United States. . .

Sorry, but the "Spirit of America" to me as embodied by the "huddled masses" who have come here has always meant people not unlike these (the poor and disadvantaged) coming here looking for new opportunity and seeking to make the most of themselves. The key difference is that these people do not come here and beg for admittance, promising (and resolving to themselves) to take maximum advantage of the OPPORTUNITIES America affords. They BREAK IN here and DEMAND that they're able to take advantage of America. They historically do little to push themselves and make the most of the opportunities they're given. Instead, they shack up 20-to-a-room in slums and live in closed societies. Integration is unimportant to most. Learning the local language, culture, laws and way of life is unimportant to most. They take, whether unintentionally (by stealing American jobs) or intentionally (through ripping off social programs).

America helps those who help themselves. These folks could certainly do a lot more to help themselves and their cause by not being so smug about it and parading their entitlement complexes in front of the public-at-large. Americans (including myself) tend to be generous and sympathize to the plight of those in need. We (and I) do NOT respond kindly to those that either take our generosity for granted or demand it from us.

Sorry, but a friend had his Saleen Lightning totaled by an uninsured illegal. Had his wife & new-born been in the truck, they most likely would have been hurt real badly. For what every reason, the Police in FL. don't do anything about this problem, let em go gor DUIs after they sober up, ect. My buddy waited a while for that special ordered Saleen, and he can't just replace it either. People can make all the excuses they want, but the people who illegally enter this country are knowingly breaking the law and should not be rewarded for doing so.

Absolutely not!

But when you're an unfortunate, dirt poor, uneducated (perhaps even illiterate) victim of an ill-managed and corrupt third world country, who sees a way to find work to buy food to stay alive, the concept of "border security" is probably not foremost in your mind.

We could just ignore that and flat out blow them away - if we pass a law allowing that. Suggest you write your congressman if that's what you'd like to see happen.

I bet you could come up with a better idea though, if you went beyond gut level response to a deeper analyses of the problem.

I'm convinced that you could - you don't strike me as a clueless individual at all.

No Problem, I think about the illegal invasion this way... If 20 million had come here with armored vehicles and guns blazing we would probably do something about it, but because they are invading unarmed it is okay in some respect?

Like I said I am not going to be the one who gets fked by the the increasing number of illegals...I'm in my 50s.....even the BOyz on this Board are not going to feel the full impact...it YOUR CHILDREN that are being royally fked in the a$$. Cause their futures are being comporomised and given away wholesale. All those services such as medical care and education are being divided up by people who did no more to earn it than get their backs wet by swimining across a river or jumping a fence.

I feel sorry for those people and wish them well, but its my and your survival thats at stake. The ship can't take everybody on board with out capsizing..then everybody goes down...whether you are Bill Gates, Wayne, Tabs or anyone of you miscreatins out there.

People there are LIMITS to what you can do, and there comes a time when you have to say I gotta take care of me and mine....

Wonder what Mexico would do if we did a massive run on their border. I believe this is a felony in their neck of the woods....

It seems that if anyone says anything that sounds concerned with the humanity of these immigrants then they get an angry response indicating they are SUPPORTERS of illegal immigration and that they just don't "get it". I get it, I don't support illegal activity other than occasionally driving my car too fast or fudging a bit on my taxes...you know...just like you!

Then, anyone that angrily says they are concerned about illegals and the impacts they place on America is called a racist. I highly doubt these people would call me names, throw me out of their house or deny me a job because I am Hispanic. So I don't consider them a racist (a misnomer anyway, many/most hispanics are caucasians).

Now, if you're advocating shooting people, I'm calling them as I see them. Shooting people is killing, period. I go on record here as being anti-killing (Don't make this statement into a "...if it was your daughter" drama either).

Look, we must secure our borders but I personally don't think that is remotely enough. Fences were made to be jumped. If we build a bigger, longer, higher fence we'll just see how good some people can be at tunneling or pole vaulting. I am in favor of controlling our borders. I am in favor of addressing the status of the millions of illegal aliens already in the country so they can contribute to the tax base and to the cost of social services. I think addressing their status will also legitimize their receipt of some services from those systems into which they most likely contributed illegally (bogus Social Security I.D.) but can never get back from.

We've got to get a hell of a lot better at dealing with the governments of these countries from which many of the illegals come. Economically wrestle them to the ground to "encourage" them to do more for their own people so we aren't put in the position of having to. While we're at it, let them keep their own criminals and we'll keep ours. None of this is a perfect solution but I believe a many facetted approach is absolutely mandatory or all we'll be doing is continue to argue about this for another few decades. I'm outta this one.

One solution is a Guest Worker program....you stand in line and get a Work Permit...first come first serve...all the illegals now in the USA get to stand at the front of the line....Nobody gets to jump the fence or cut in line...and there have to be stiff penalities that will disuade those that try...maybe a long prison sentence picking lettuce for free. That ought to generate enough income to pay for their room and board..then after 5 years its back to from whence they came with no standing in line privledges...otherewise its a 10 year hitch picking lettuce for free.

Dan, you are IN FAVOR of illegal immigration ;) hadta do it.
But seriously, do you lock the doors on your house at night? Do you lock your car when you park it in a parking lot?
Sure ya do, and the reason you do it is to keep someone from stealing your car and from entering your house illegally.
You wouldn't want someone breaking into your house and moving in, would you? How about if someone decided to move into your house while you were at work, ate all your food, was wearing your clothes and refused to leave? You wouldn't like that at all. Even if they were only stealing your car or breaking into your house so they could provide for their families.

So how is that different from someone illegally breaking into my country? It isn't different, it's the same thing.

Haters? Yes, I hate illegal immigration. I hate criminals and I hate it when others support criminals.
I hate it when people suggest illegal immigration is OK only because most of the illegal immigrants are of the same race as they are.
I hate it when bleeding heart special interest groups "demand" rights that they do not deserve because they are criminals and are in this country illegally.
I hate watching hospitals and emergency rooms close down or go bankrupt because they cans't stay in business due the very large percentage of illegal aliens that demand free medical care.
Remember that hospital in Dallas where 70% of all children born had illegal immigrant parents? It's the same hospital where they took JFK after he got shot.
70 freaking percent! Are you kidding me, 70%? Sure, come on in. We have a few feet of land left, might as well use it all up.

Snipped from the Dallas Morning News (verified as true through snopes)

Since Parkland opened in 1895, it has served Dallas' indigent population, which often includes uninsured minority and immigrant residents.

A recent patient survey indicated that 70 percent of the women who gave birth at Parkland in the first three months of 2006 were illegal immigrants, hospital officials said.

These Hispanic women had been having their babies at Parkland without much attention until the recent debate over illegal immigration. Critics have questioned the ease with which illegal immigrants are delivering their babies at U.S. hospitals – at taxpayers' expense.

Parkland "is supposed to be taking care of those people who are citizens of the United States and who are living there legally," said U.S. Rep. Michael Burgess, who toured the Dallas hospital recently and noted the high percentage of "first-generation Americans" among its newborns.

can someone point me to the source of this whole thing? All I saw was, "i heard on the radio..."

If there a link to a story about someone suing over this?

FK U Nostatus...We don't need no stinkin sources or verification it must be true if ya heard it on the PPOT.

Sources? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING SOURCES!!!!SmileWavy

Now these people should be shot........

October 26, 2007
Illegal Immigrants Capitalize On U.S. Disaster
Mexican illegal immigrants have taken advantage of the California wildfires, looting and stealing from evacuated homes and victim shelters and entering the country through vulnerable border crossings abandoned by U.S. agents forced out by flames.

More than 1,400 homes were lost in the catastrophic fires that burned hundreds of thousands of acres throughout southern California and led the president to officially proclaim the event a federal natural disaster.

U.S. Border Patrol agents in several San Diego crossings were forced to evacuate their posts and illegal immigrants took advantage to enter the country. More than 200 illegal aliens have been arrested in the fire zone since the flames erupted earlier this week and several are being treated for burns at San Diego hospitals.

Many of them entered the U.S. through a remote border crossing (Tecate) just minutes after Border Patrol agents evacuated, locking a small gate behind them. Migrants opened the gate and a rush of traffic, both pedestrian and vehicle, ensued. Federal authorities are still not certain how many illegal immigrants have slipped into the country in the last few days.

Additionally, there have been numerous incidents of illegal immigrants looting and stealing from burned residences in the San Diego area as well the football stadium that served as a shelter for thousands of evacuees. The San Diego County Sheriff has arrested several of the culprits, including two illegal aliens caught crossing back into Mexico carrying items stolen from a burned home.

My god where is you compasion Man?!

It was on KNX1070 this morning (which is normally a pretty decent news source as media outlets go) about 7:30 on the way to work. It was only mentioned as part of the local/state news. Don't see it on their web site now so maybe they've determined it's irrelevant (or erroneous?)

I suggest he get this disc from Amazon, and listen to it over and over again while he's waiting for his new Saleen:

There comes a time
When we heed a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
And it's time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all

We can't go on
Pretending day by day
That someone, somewhere will soon make a change
We are all a part of
God's great big family
And the truth, you know love is all we need

[Chorus]
We are the world
We are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let's start giving.

etc etc

Maybe I'm being too simplistic here, but shouldn't the great big clouds of black smoke be warning enough? What do we need skywriters or something?

This is alot like the lawsuits claiming that the government has a duty to provide food and water stations along the border for illegal immigrants who get thirsty or hungry. I would propose a simpler solution, how about a phone booth that connects only to the local border patrol station. If you get hungry or thirsty, pick up the phone and we will be happy to give you some food and water while you sit in the air conditioned truck on your way back to Mexico...

Of course no one suggests THAT solution...

What the Progresives want is for everybody to share with everybody else....so long as they are not the ones who have to do the sharing...