Not sure exactly how your industry works Jim, but with all the properties I purchased in the last 7 years here (SoFLA), I had to write TWO checks before anything was started with loan/closing docs...one to the appraiser and one to the survey company. Can't you collect up-front before doing the work?

I understand, You gotta do what you gotta do.

I'm having a CO issue with one of my sales right now. Need permits, inspections, survey and an expeditor to resolve it.

Expeditor got 2/3rds of his fee up front, a blank check for permits and inspections and the surveyor was paid before I ever met him or he even viewed my property.

Just the way it is these days.

Hmmm...silence... :confused:

Just saw this Danny.


On larger deals we get a retainer and a signed contract. With builders we work from job to job with no formalities. With title companies we only get the order and with the market the way it is here Title Companies and Mortgage Brokers are not collecting the fee for the survey up front. So I am left to decide, take a chance and do the work with a small percentage of them not paying (1%-5%) or have no work at all and close my doors?

Banks still collect the survey fee up front.


This project we are discussing was a dead deal from a builder that went bankrupt. The guy that wrote the bad check contacted me about getting copies of the survey, I informed him there was a balance due. He informed me he would pay as soon as he got his 1st bank draw. I agreed this seemed fair.

Then he never paid, but, he needed to house repositioned on the property per the owners request so he needed revisions. I told him it was now c.o.d. and he agreed. He brought his checkbook and wrote me a check and I handed him the surveys.

The check was written off a closed account.

You need to change your billing pracitces a bit. Protect yourself, file liens prior to the statue running, whatever the time period is. You don't have to pursue them, but it will protect you and keep your options open. If they gripe about getting papers about a lien, gripe right back about them not being on top of their responsibilities. It is tough all over, cash flow can be a problem. Your momma carried you 9 months, I am only doing it for 1, or 2, whatever keeps you from being assed out.

If someone owes you money 90 days and writes you a check off a closed account, don't you think your colleagues might want to hear about it. File on them.

People don't get bad reputations by mistake.

"...the office manager threatened to take my biggest client away from me, and she could they were sister companies and she had a lot of pull, so I had to decide fight for 11K or keep my 11K a month client that pays well. I am convinced they collected my fee at closings and pocketed it, but, if I pursue it I will hurt my business greatly."


They are already hurting your business greatly. I have been in this position before as well. Having a client pressure me to give away my work is not acceptable. If I did nothing, I was in essence, saying that it was alright. If the sister company finds out that you work for free, how long before they want the same deal? Going down this road, things will get worse not better.

Give them 10 days to pay and then go through collections. No one is worth selling your soul for. I know it's easy for me to tell you what you should do but being as close to it as you are, you can lack objectivity. Good luck.

Update, the local police have proved once again the worthless in this. I have repeatedly tried to contact the check fraud division only to get an answering machine and never get a call back.

Mr. Closed Bank account called today, a few days ago I decided to pay him a visit at his home, he was nto there so I left a business card with a simple message. $$$??? Call me!!!

He called today, he wanted me to go do some more work on the property so he "could get his bank draw" this is the same draw for the 3rd time.

I told him off, I said the only way he would see one of my crews was to come to my office with $2400 cash. He then told me he could only get it after he got this work done and got his draw.

I told him to go to the land owner and get it from them explaining how the surveyor has been waiting for over a year to get paid.....

Then I cut myself off and told him to figure out how to do his own job I did not need to tell him how to do it and I hung up on him.



Jorian - I wish it was that simple, if I went after 1st american err..... That title company they could take away the only client I have right now doing anything. 80% of the work I am doing right now is for this client. I have lots and lots of really desirable clients and they are doing squat, nada, nothing they are all stalled int he gates laying off like no bodies business.

Tobra - again I do this with bigger projects with strangers, with title companies and mortgage companies its not that simple, you see if a closing falls through I might get paid, if I do not I have to go after the buyers, the sellers are not responsible, how could I lien their house? They did nothing wrong even though I did a survey of their house I cannot lien it.

Same goes with most builders, I have worked for most of my clients for close to 10 years, in those 10 years only 2 have stiffed me. One is gone the other is in town and very politically connected.

Its just lately with the failing economy most of my hits are happening.

Here in BC if you are not working directly for the land-owner but are doing work that improves his property, you have recourse against the property owner. I guess that is not the case in your area?

I was thinking about this thread while driving up to NC last night.


3 years ago, when I was busy, I put my foot down with a Title Company that was ordering updates on surveys we did for a builder we worked for. In other words, I had done the Survey for the builder and now the house was being resold (flipped) and the bank required a resurvey with the new certifications.

Think of it this way, call your Title Company, tell them you sold a house they did title work on 4 weeks ago and you want them to change the names on the Commitment. This is what was being asked of me. So I would offer a 50% discount since I was only visiting the site for a few minutes and noting if any changes had been made to the property, we would reflag the property corners and then change the names on the survey. This was a real gravy deal.

Well, quite a few fell through and the Title Company refused to pay. I put my foot down and they found a surveyor that would "wash out" the dead deals.

So I lost a real money maker for being firm.

I will NEVER do that again, I lost a huge client because I put my foot down and the money I was loosing on dead deals was nothing compared to the business I lost.

Same deal here, put my foot down and loose money in the long run, or loose 11K now and move on. I learned from my mistake last time.



Wayne, if I could get a cop to return a phone call I would have filed a report by now.

Jim -

Stop by the department and do it in person. Once the report is in the system (any officer should be able to do it) then things may happen...

Mr. Bad Check supposedly stopped by the office today with a cashiers check.

I am out of town and will check it out on Monday when I am back. I guess go to the issuing bank and make sure its legit, then go deposit it. Its made out to my company so I do not think I can walk in and cash it.

I guess my yelling at him worked. It sucks that you have to treat some adults like bad dogs.