Radiohead Experiment

[Sonic dB]

60% of the people who downloaded the record paid nothing.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071106/ap_en_mu/radiohead_download_study

Well, they still made some money on the record and the publicity itself probably gained them both notarity and additional downloads that they would not have gotten... and will gain them publicity for upcoming shows.

But, there is something about 'placing value' on a service, or in this case and 'art form' that is necessary for people to take it seriously. In most consumers minds, why pay for the milk, when you can get the cow for free?
Yeah, people can download the tunes illegally if they want, but that takes a bit more effort than what Radiohead did.

Bottom line is that this may work well for an established band such as Radiohead, but really doesnt do much for the value of their music in the long run. Less established artists would not benefit from this as much....

And, there is the possibility that the current unfortunate perception and the diminished 'value' of music as a disposable art form...which is where this has all headed. discuss.

[the]

Originally Posted by Sonic dB

Bottom line is that this may work well for an established band such as Radiohead, but really doesnt do much for the value of their music in the long run. Less established artists would not benefit from this as much....

I suppose if I were a less established or unknown band, I'd arguably rather have people download and listen to my songs for free, rather than have them never hear the songs at all.

Music is already pretty much a disposable art form, so that's a wash.

[legion]

I wonder how many people paid less than .10 for the whole album?

[kstar]

If you assume they only get a buck or so on a "label release" and average out the freeloaders and the payers, I might guess Radiohead made out a bit better with their experiment . . . this all of course assumes the method of figuring out who paid and how much is accurate.

FWIW.

Best,

Kurt

edit: I paid about $10 and I am now hooked on the album! It takes a few listens to absorb.

[TheMentat]

The ones that did pay, paid $6. I wonder how much a regular band's "take" is per CD when released through the big production companies?

[gprsh924]

Originally Posted by the

I suppose if I were a less established or unknown band, I'd arguably rather have people download and listen to my songs for free, rather than have them never hear the songs at all.

Music is already pretty much a disposable art form, so that's a wash.

My two favorite bands are OAR and Dispatch. They are both rock/reggae jam band types that gained their fanbases in the heyday of Napster through downloads. They never would've gained the fans they did if they people did not file share. Both these bands encouraged this and allow recordings at their concerts so more people can have access to their music.

OAR is still together while Dispatch broke up a few years ago. At their farewell concert they had 100,000 people and this summer they played three benefit concerts at Madison Square Garden. They were the first independent band to sell out the Garden. I was in attendance for the last show and it was unbelievable.

[craigster59]

Were they able to obtain the e-mail addresses of everyone who purchased the album? I would imagine that would be worth a few $$ alone, knowing who your fan base is and being able to market directly and accordingly in the future. Maybe offer bonus songs later for free, or pre-order of tickets to upcoming concerts. Talk about eliminating the "middle man".

At least it's better than a Walmart "exclusive" ala The Eagles..

[Sonic dB]

No question that Radiohead made a bundle on this... I heard that 2million downloaded and if only 40% paid (average of $4-6 per according to that article), then they still did very well...

legion has a point about using the music as a promotional tool.... I just come from the mindset that stuff given out for free usually isnt valued as highly as that which is paid for.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Sonic dB

legion has a point about using the music as a promotional tool.... I just come from the mindset that stuff given out for free usually isnt valued as highly as that which is paid for.

Ain't that the truth?! See my thread last week on my company giving away freebies at the expense of the sales folks' commission checks. This after they fly a guy down here from NY in August to speak to us for an hour about what to say when clients ask for any kind of discount and how to not give anything away without cheapening the brand. Sheesh.

[SlowToady]

Yes, an email address was required to download. The system is kinda flawed though: if you download it to see if it's worth paying for, listen to it, and decide it is, then you have to sign up with another email address to pay for it! The system was programmed to only allow one download per unique email addy. I wonder how many people didn't realize that, or don't have a 2nd email addy to sign up again and donate. Shouldn't have to make people work to donate to you!

Also, the site design is pretty bad for that kinda thing...wonder if that lost them any sales?

Live and learn...hopefully they do. Good for them.

Originally Posted by craigster59

Were they able to obtain the e-mail addresses of everyone who purchased the album? I would imagine that would be worth a few $$ alone, knowing who your fan base is and being able to market directly and accordingly in the future. Maybe offer bonus songs later for free, or pre-order of tickets to upcoming concerts. Talk about eliminating the "middle man".

At least it's better than a Walmart "exclusive" ala The Eagles..

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by TheMentat

The ones that did pay, paid $6. I wonder how much a regular band's "take" is per CD when released through the big production companies?

Usually in a standard label contract (At least in the past 15 years or so where I have experience) A band could expect to make around $1 a copy, BUT ONLY after they had paid back (recouped) their debt to the record company. However, the structure in which they were "allowed" to pay back their debt is intensely f**ked up. If the record would sell for, say, $18.99 the amount of it used to "pay back" the artist debt would be, say, around $1 a copy. In the '90s, a label could EASILY spend $100k, $200k, etc. to help record a band's record. So it was not unheard of for a band to have a gold or platinum record and never have made ANY money from it.

In fact, my band's HIT record from 1993 has sold about 1.5 million copies and they have never made $1 from the actual sales of the record. Tours, Merchandising, royalties, yes. But not from actual sales.

And the stunts and gimmicks will continue. It's the only way to garner any attention at all, besides . . . . well . . . having good music. Or a good live show.

[Gogar]

In fact, if you're interested in gimmicks, Check this out:

The first 12,000 people who sign up with a physical address and email will receive a FREE COPY of the new Big Head Todd and the Monsters album. This link has been up for 4 days and we're at about 10,500 so far. Check it out if you like:

www.bigheadtodd.com/alltheloveyouneed

It's spam-free if you sign up, too.

[Les Paul]

So are they going to release it on to a CD? I like to get my grubby hands on CD's. I like to read the liner notes, the lyrics, etc. Yesterday I moved 1,800 albums from a closet they have been in for over 20 years to a new media room I built. In going through the albums one thing that even the CD can't come close to comparing is the art work on album covers. I ordered 20 or those album cover frames just to show off some of those old covers. Who will see them? Family and friends who may not care but they meant something back in the day to me.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

[SlowToady]

The comments on the article over at Slashdot seems to indicate that it will be released to CD as well. I'm not sure if this is truly so, but if it so, they should stand to make quite a few more dollars from that.

Also, if they would have done their website better, they'd have likely made more, too:-P

Gogar, is Big Head Todd your band?

Originally Posted by Les Paul

So are they going to release it on to a CD? I like to get my grubby hands on CD's. I like to read the liner notes, the lyrics, etc. Yesterday I moved 1,800 albums from a closet they have been in for over 20 years to a new media room I built. In going through the albums one thing that even the CD can't come close to comparing is the art work on album covers. I ordered 20 or those album cover frames just to show off some of those old covers. Who will see them? Family and friends who may not care but they meant something back in the day to me.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally Posted by Sonic dB

No question that Radiohead made a bundle on this... I heard that 2million downloaded and if only 40% paid (average of $4-6 per according to that article), then they still did very well...

From what little I know about Thom Yorke, my guess is it wasn't at all a savy business move. I'm naive enough to believe that he's above that mentality and truly loves what he does. I'm sure that he isn't thrilled that 60% did not pay. It's not the money, but the point.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by gprsh924

My two favorite bands are OAR and Dispatch. They are both rock/reggae jam band types that gained their fanbases in the heyday of Napster through downloads. They never would've gained the fans they did if they people did not file share. Both these bands encouraged this and allow recordings at their concerts so more people can have access to their music.

OAR is still together while Dispatch broke up a few years ago. At their farewell concert they had 100,000 people and this summer they played three benefit concerts at Madison Square Garden. They were the first independent band to sell out the Garden. I was in attendance for the last show and it was unbelievable.

Awesome, another OAR fan! I have everything they have recorded, and have managed to see them live twice. What an amazing band to see in concert.

Totally agreed though, my exposure to them was via Napster. A buddy of mine went to college at Northwestern, when he came back for a break he brought back some OAR CDs. He had seen them in concert somewhere. At the time, I couldn't even find their stuff for sale locally. I downloaded everything, then had a local music store order me their CDs. With them being the ultimate drunk band, they were constant at our parties, and soon there were more of my friends buying their CDs. So, thanks to free music on the internet, they sold quite a few CDs.

[Christien]

Originally Posted by the

I suppose if I were a less established or unknown band, I'd arguably rather have people download and listen to my songs for free, rather than have them never hear the songs at all.

Bingo. I am, and I would (in a less-established band and rather people download for free than not listen).

Music is already pretty much a disposable art form, so that's a wash.

Yes and no. Pop music that's churned out to the masses is indeed, but it's very much a sliding scale, with Britney, etc. at one end and bands like Radiohead, well, not at the other end, but a good ways down the scale. I would argue that bands that give it away for free are either towards the one end of this scale (where they care enough about their music to want to get it out there, even if that means sacrificing some profits) or they have nothing to lose (like most indie bands like mine who would just be happy selling enough CDs at shows to cover the costs to make them, in our case, under $1000) so would prefer the exposure, because the sales aren't coming, either way.

[gr8fl4porsche]

I think it's a viable sales pitch. I just downloaded the album and did not donate. I am not very familiar with Radiohead - so I am the perfect customer. I would not normally buy a Radiohead album or go to a show. Maybe the exposure of this 'free' album will make me a fan and I may buy some of their other albums and catch the show when they come thru town. The free download is also 160kbps .mp3. If I really like the album I may invest in a better sounding format when the cd is released in a couple of months.

[gprsh924]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Awesome, another OAR fan! I have everything they have recorded, and have managed to see them live twice. What an amazing band to see in concert.

Totally agreed though, my exposure to them was via Napster. A buddy of mine went to college at Northwestern, when he came back for a break he brought back some OAR CDs. He had seen them in concert somewhere. At the time, I couldn't even find their stuff for sale locally. I downloaded everything, then had a local music store order me their CDs. With them being the ultimate drunk band, they were constant at our parties, and soon there were more of my friends buying their CDs. So, thanks to free music on the internet, they sold quite a few CDs.

I bought two of their cd's and have gotten the rest from my friends. I've seen them live 5 times in the last year and a half. However, the bulk of their stuff that I have are live recordings. I have like 10 different versions of Crazy Game of Poker and About Mr. Brown. Matt have you checked out oarsa.org They have setlists from every show and many of the shows have full downloads available. They also have a listing of every song they have ever played along with a downloadable version or two of both.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I'll check that out Garrett, thanks. I have the two CD set of live recordings, it's damn good. My only knock on much of the bootleg live stuff is the low quality, but this two CD set is quality. I also like it's lack of musical polish, much of the newer stuff is sounding more produced.

A few years ago (pre marriage & kids), I couldn't picture a Friday or Saturday night without Crazy Game of Poker cranked up in the background. Good times.