Kimi still champ!

[Seric]

Clicky

Good decision.

[motion]

Good call.... F1 doesn't need another Keystone Cops episode.

[livi]

Thank God (why do I use that term, I am not even remotedly religious)!

It is an honor to be Scandinavian these days.

[legion]

Has the FIA made one decision that benefited McLaren all season?

[CurtEgerer]

Kimi's reaction to the news was somewhat predictable .....

[Seric]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

Kimi's reaction to the news was somewhat predictable .....

Hah, I love that pic. Actually, there is photographic evidence that Kimi got programmed with a "smile function" after the championship. The Tifosi are pleased.

[chapo]

Has the FIA made one decision that benefited McLaren all season?

a better question is, " has McLaren made any good decisions this season?"

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by legion

Has the FIA made one decision that benefited McLaren all season?

Yes, they let their drivers continue to compete in the WDC even after the Team was caught stealing documents and using them.

I would say that was a huge break.

Using their argument in the courtroom yesterday, Hammy and Fernando should not have even been in the WDC after their Stephneygate hearings.

McLaren continually maintained in the build-up to the appeal there motive was for clarity of the regulations, and not for Hamilton to win the title in the courtroom.

However, after initially arguing whether McLaren's case was first admissible, and then the merits of their action, the team's lawyer Ian Mill QC called for disqualifcation of the three drivers and a reclassification of the championship.

That prompted Ferrari's lawyer, Nigel Tozzi QC, to brand McLaren as "naked opportunists," further suggesting they are "shameless hypocrites devoid of any integrity".

[motion]

Fascinating... so much at stake. F1 is really intriguing.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

Yes, they let their drivers continue to compete in the WDC even after the Team was caught stealing documents and using them.

I would say that was a huge break.

Using their argument in the courtroom yesterday, Hammy and Fernando should not have even been in the WDC after their Stephneygate hearings.

And when other teams are caught doing the same thing nothing happens.

Does anyone see two sets of rules here and McLaren gets screwed everytime while if its Ferarri or other team the FIA looks the other way??!!

Excuse me? What did Hamilton have to do with the illegal doings? Fernando and de la Rosa were knee deep in it and nothing happened to them.

The FIA is after Ron Dennis and fair treatment or law be dammed!

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by livi

Thank God (why do I use that term, I am not even remotedly religious)!

I do the same thing and every time I do I think "why do I say that"?

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

And when other teams are caught doing the same thing nothing happens.

Does anyone see two sets of rules here and McLaren gets screwed everytime while if its Ferarri or other team the FIA looks the other way??!!

Excuse me? What did Hamilton have to do with the illegal doings? Fernando and de la Rosa were knee deep in it and nothing happened to them.

The FIA is after Ron Dennis and fair treatment or law be dammed!

We beat that horse bloody in another thread and I am not rehashing it.

We agree to disagree. What I see and what you see are totally different.

Hammy and Alonso allowed to participate was a break for the team. If they had finished 1-2 in the WDC this conversation would not be happening, the Tifosi would be looking to 2008 like they had done for 2 years prior.

Hammy was involved to the extent that he is running a car with a team caught cheating. Similar to McLarens demand that the drivers of the teams with "cool fuel" be stripped of their points. But, it seems that was only good for other teams not McLaren.

[450knotOffice]

+1

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

And when other teams are caught doing the same thing nothing happens.

Does anyone see two sets of rules here and McLaren gets screwed everytime while if its Ferarri or other team the FIA looks the other way??!!

Excuse me? What did Hamilton have to do with the illegal doings? Fernando and de la Rosa were knee deep in it and nothing happened to them.

The FIA is after Ron Dennis and fair treatment or law be dammed!

IMHO: the issue of fuel temperature is a matter of storage techniques. If the stewards would have found equipment specifically designed to cool the fuel, a penalty would have and should have been imposed.
In the absence of specific intent there is no crime just an inadvertent infraction.
In the case of using an extra set a tires, the team specifically intended to gain competitive advantage by scrubbing an extra set of rains. McLaren was one of the teams caught cheating.

If my premise is correct it seems that Hambone/McLaren got the real break. Had all infractions been penalized by disqualification then Hambone would have finished 3rd in the WC .

Conspiracy theories aside, this years real story is the complete meltdown of a once great team. Vodafone McLaren Mercedes
First they trade away the fastest driver in F1, Kimi. Then they get caught stealing, using, then lying about Ferrari technical data. Next in the Petry dish of team politics, a world champion (Fred) resorts to blackmail to rectify a perception of unfair and unequal treatment. Finally their phenom rookie throws the world championship away because McLaren couldn't keep him calm enough to utilize a very basic strategy.
To add insult to injury, McLaren hires top litigators (the last resort when reason fails) to try to do in a court what their drivers couldn't do on the track.
They (Dennis and the whole McLaren team) showed the world their ass and by my way if thinking they should be ashamed.

As for the Rookie Phenom (Hambone short for bone head) he is on track to be just another flash. He is now tied with Villenuve for 2nd in the WC in his rookie year. Villenuve scored 4 victories in his first year and if not for a wheel falling off would have won the WC.. Hambone also four victories, lost the WC by his own failure. Villenuve won the WC the next year and then proceeded to fade into obscuraty. Then we have everyones favorate, another Brit, Jenson Button who showed great promise and that is a promise not kept.
Before we call Hammy the next Shumacher let's remmember how good he (Shumy) really was / is.
Races 250
Points 1369
Wins 91 (36.40%)
WC Titles 7
Poles 69 (27.60%)
Retirements 53
Podiums 154 (61.60%)

Nov 14 2007
Shumy quickest at Circuit de Catalunya for the second day in a row, after not driving for a full year.

[DaveE]

Well said, Henry, well said.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by DaveE

Well said, Henry, well said.

+1

[911teo]

Henry

you are quite good at manipulating the truth to home in your points but there are a few imprecisions in what you said:

- Kimi is a good driver (my favourite in fact) but the last 4 years really show how Alonso is so far been the better of the 2.

- McLaren did not steal. A Ferrari employee presented a McLaren employee with some information regarding Ferrari.

- McLaren has always given both drivers equal treatment. What's the point in hiring the best talent in F1 not to give him a best shot. I think you forget who the main shareholder at McLaren is... And if you think Mercedes Benz is willing to throw away million of dollars of investments so that a rookie Brit can possibly win the championship then you are being played by the press

- The last 2 races are still filled with interesting facts and coincidences/mistakes that allowed the deserving Kimi to win the title. It is easy to say that Ham crumbled under the pressure... but the truth sometimes is not the most obvious.

They should have disqualified the drivers when they took away the points to the team... but hey... F1 needs the spectators and fans to watch so that the sponsors are happy...
So.... Hamster losing the title because he gets all of a sudden scared/excited/stupid is a believable way to end it... and everybody is happy.

Let's see what happens next year...

Something tells me though that none of the top drivers (oh well maybe Alonso, depending on where he ends up) are going to have on of those nice "you cannot race me, mate" contracts that were in vogue at Ferrari a couple of years ago....

Anyway glad this season is over and glad the tilte stayed with Kimi.

[Henry Schmidt]

WOW, talk about manipulation, your statement reeks of it.

Originally Posted by 911teo

Henry

you are quite good at manipulating the truth to home in your points but there are a few imprecisions in what you said:

- Kimi is a good driver (my favourite in fact) but the last 4 years really show how Alonso is so far been the better of the 2.
What I said was "First they trade away the fastest driver in F1, Kimi." any real F1 aficionado has to agree with that statement. I'll leave the definition of good, better , best to the more Solomon among us. Most sports are multifaceted, and F1 is no different. Some drivers have great car control, some run well in the rain and other are best with the best equipment (engine, chassis or tyres.) When it comes to pure speed Kimi rocks.

- McLaren did not steal. A Ferrari employee presented a McLaren employee with some information regarding Ferrari.
Now this one lacks any original thought. If you rob a bank with inside help, it is still a " bank robbery"
Stepney is incapable of freely giving what he doesn't own. In criminal law, McLaren is guilty of receiving stolen property at a minimum and conspiracy to commit grand theft and industrial espionage if they asked Stepney to steel it.
Receiving stolen property is a specific intent crime and to claim that McLaren or their agent was unaware that the material was stolen is just plain silly.

- McLaren has always given both drivers equal treatment. What's the point in hiring the best talent in F1 not to give him a best shot. I think you forget who the main shareholder at McLaren is... And if you think Mercedes Benz is willing to throw away million of dollars of investments so that a rookie Brit can possibly win the championship then you are being played by the press
What I believe is that McLaren/ Ron Dennis has a responsibility to his team and his drivers to embolden them to excellence. They failed by not giving Fred the confidence that he was receiving a "fair shake".
- The last 2 races are still filled with interesting facts and coincidences/mistakes that allowed the deserving Kimi to win the title. It is easy to say that Ham crumbled under the pressure... but the truth sometimes is not the most obvious.
[color=blue][b] The truth is it, cool. I was wondering who was keeping the truth this week. All hale the "keeper of the truth". All kidding aside, all we can do is analyze the evidence we have. The truth is probably hidden somewhere in the haze.
They should have disqualified the drivers when they took away the points to the team... but hey... F1 needs the spectators and fans to watch so that the sponsors are happy...
So.... Hamster losing the title because he gets all of a sudden scared/excited/stupid is a believable way to end it... and everybody is happy.
Hambones lost because in the last 2 races he wasn't good enough to get the points he needed to win. No car failure, no lack of talent and no conspiracy. He just couldn't rise to the occasion. Will he ? we'll see.

Let's see what happens next year...

Something tells me though that none of the top drivers (oh well maybe Alonso, depending on where he ends up) are going to have on of those nice "you cannot race me, mate" contracts that were in vogue at Ferrari a couple of years ago....
Hopefully next year will be just like this year. Teams competing at the highest level with people who bring their human frailties to the grid with them.

Anyway glad this season is over and glad the tilte stayed with Kimi.

[motion]

Originally Posted by 911teo

It is easy to say that Ham crumbled under the pressure... but the truth sometimes is not the most obvious.

They should have disqualified the drivers when they took away the points to the team... but hey... F1 needs the spectators and fans to watch so that the sponsors are happy...
So.... Hamster losing the title because he gets all of a sudden scared/excited/stupid is a believable way to end it... and everybody is happy.

Matteo, are you suggesting that the Hamster parked the car in the gravel on purpose, on orders from Bernie?

[911teo]

Henry

you can type in red all you want... but the facts are set. Around it you give it your interpretation.

You are entitled to your opinion. And I respect it. But to come out and say that this season witnessed the meltdown of a once great team I think is well just your opinion.

Let me start by saying that McLaren had not won anything in a number of years. So this season is not really that different from the recent past ones...
In fact one could argue that it was a good year for them to finish with a good shot at the WDC.

So to say that McLaren this year tumbled from its previous glory days is a little bit stretched. When was the last DWC won? Was it Mikka? When was the last time they clinched the WCC?

Fastest driver... difficult to say.... But McLaren lost Kimi and gained Alonso at the beginning of this season... wanna call it even?

Next... You yourself has just agreed with my point. When you say that McLaren is guilty of receiving stolen property you are absolutely right! I did not say they were not guilty...
But they did not steal them. I am just rectifying some of your observations.

Your next point is totally on target. McLaren failed to make Alonso feel (for whatever reason) welcome or loved and his departure is the biggest blow to McLaren organization.

Even assuming that Hamster caved in under pressure and made 2 mistakes (none of which were really his fault, right? The team didnt call him in to change the tires and the gearbox went blank for 40 seconds) you cannot deny that he did pretty well for his 1st season....

I think McLaren here gained one on last year...

I could not agree more with your last statement....

Peace?