WTF is going on in Hawaii?

[legion]

I don't get what the big deal is?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20071203/ap_tr_ge/travel_brief_hawaii_superferry_1

Protesters and police are preparing for a possible confrontation when the Hawaii Superferry returns to Maui this week, with some protesters talking about blocking its path, clogging traffic and facing arrest if necessary.
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Inspired by successful protests in the water that stopped the ferry from docking at Kauai in August, some opponents say they may risk a clash with a heavy police force that is trying to close off most of the Maui harbor when the ferry approaches.

Are they just protesting for the sake of protesting?

[Aurel]

I don`t really get it either, but the reasons against the superferry are listed there:

http://boycottsuperferry.org/

Aurel

[legion]

How does a ferry going between islands in the ocean spread invasive species?

[sammyg2]

Bye tim.

[the]

Originally Posted by TimT

OK, nevermind.... please disregard my posts.... stick your heads back in the sand


sorry I bothered to reply in the OT forum.... wont make that mistake again

Winner of 2007 Over-Reactive, Overly Sensitive Post of the Year!

[gprsh924]

He's clearly not cut out for OT.

I thought Legion posed a perfectly logical, rational question.

[legion]

Originally Posted by TimT

OK, nevermind.... please disregard my posts.... stick your heads back in the sand


sorry I bothered to reply in the OT forum.... wont make that mistake again

So rather than answer my question, you'll criticize me for asking it?

I still don't get what the big fuss is about...

[alf]

People from less populated areas tend to not like people from more populated areas coming in.

[legion]

Will this allow people to move or just move around?

[bell]

this thread has gone in 2 or 3 different directions...........LOL

bush hates dead whales and mongooses.....and frog eggs

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

The reasons against the ferry seems somewhat reasonable, considering that flying between the islands is tightly controlled...

-Wayne

Huh? Flying between the islands is no more tightly controlled than flying between L.A. and Sacramento. It's flying between the mainland and the islands, then back again, that is tightly controlled. Anyway...

...the argument is simple. Kauai absolutely loathes the influx of tourists that have invaded Maui. Maui, in fact, doesn't like the influx of tourists it endures, but that's Maui's problem. The super ferry, which has been a source of contention for Kauai for at least two years now, is seen as a daily multiple delivery of three-hundred-plus tourists and cars to a very small island that not only cannot support such an influx, but does not want that influx.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by legion

How does a ferry going between islands in the ocean spread invasive species?

There are a dozen or more ways, but often it is in the ballast tanks that are used and flushed periodically to trim the ship.

As a biologist, I regard that as a significant problem.

Yes, the airplanes are tightly controlled as Wayne noted. The whole idea is to make it as transparent as possible to human passengers. That's why you don't notice anything usually.

I don't know re the Hawaiian Islands, but in some cases the entire cargo compartment has been flushed with deadly gases to prevent some of the mistakes of the past with invasives.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Yes, the airplanes are tightly controlled as Wayne noted. The whole idea is to make it as transparent as possible to human passengers. That's why you don't notice anything usually.

I don't know re the Hawaiian Islands, but in some cases the entire cargo compartment has been flushed with deadly gases to prevent some of the mistakes of the past with invasives.

Having flown between the islands countless times, I haven't seen anything other than standard loading in and unloading of luggage and/or cargo from the holds. Usually, the cargo and luggage is scanned at check in. That's the difference passengers do notice that isn't part of the boarding procedure on the mainland.

However, that scanning takes place on both trans-island and, oddly enough, flights from Hawaii back to the mainland. One isn't made to have their luggage scanned for food or fruit from the mainland when going out to the Hawaiian islands.

Again, people in Kauai, at least, don't consider the biological hazards involved with the super ferry, if any, but rather the population hazard. Those on Kauai simply don't want their island overpopulated.

[sammyg2]

Soooo...... they don't like all the tourtists, they just like all the tourist's money. I understand now.
I'll do them a favor, I won't go to hawaii. Ever.
I hope the appreciate the fact that I and my money won't be responsible for their over-crowding.
Freaking hypocrites, that place is the biggest tourist trap ever invented.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Soooo...... they don't like all the tourtists, they just like all the tourist's money. I understand now.
I'll do them a favor, I won't go to hawaii. Ever.
I hope the appreciate the fact that I and my money won't be responsible for their over-crowding.
Freaking hypocrites, that place is the biggest tourist trap ever invented.

Then I guess you won't get lei-'d.

[legion]

Originally Posted by RWebb

There are a dozen or more ways, but often it is in the ballast tanks that are used and flushed periodically to trim the ship.

As a biologist, I regard that as a significant problem.

Yes, the airplanes are tightly controlled as Wayne noted. The whole idea is to make it as transparent as possible to human passengers. That's why you don't notice anything usually.

I don't know re the Hawaiian Islands, but in some cases the entire cargo compartment has been flushed with deadly gases to prevent some of the mistakes of the past with invasives.

So you are telling me that there is a significant difference between the ocean-going wildlife that surrounds islands like Maui and Kauai?

And don't TONS of ships from the mainland and Asia dock in Hawaii? I've always been under the impression that they are 100% dependent on shipping for food, fuel, finished goods, etc...

Edit: I'm not trying to put-down. The above is what I considered before posting this question.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by dd74

...the argument is simple. Kauai absolutely loathes the influx of tourists that have invaded Maui. Maui, in fact, doesn't like the influx of tourists it endures, but that's Maui's problem. The super ferry, which has been a source of contention for Kauai for at least two years now, is seen as a daily multiple delivery of three-hundred-plus tourists and cars to a very small island that not only cannot support such an influx, but does not want that influx.

I can understand the argument. I first visited Maui 13 years ago on my honeymoon. We went back 10 years later, and the island definately changed -- there was a lot more people, tons more commerce -- it seemed that paradise had been a little spoiled.

We visited Kauai the second time back (3 years ago), and it was more like what Maui was 13 years ago. I can see how the folks living on Kauai don't want the same thing to happen to them as what happened on Maui.

Side note: the first day we were on Kauai we decided to take a leisurely drive up the coast. BTW: the speed limit on the whole island is 35mph. As we were riding up the coast, coming the other way was a pristine black 356 speedster- just cruisin' along, not in a hurry. That's about as close to paradise as you can get on this blue marble. If I could be that person in 20 years driving along in a 356 on the coast of Kauai...

-Z-man.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by legion

So you are telling me that there is a significant difference between the ocean-going wildlife that surrounds islands like Maui and Kauai?

And don't TONS of ships from the mainland and Asia dock in Hawaii? I've always been under the impression that they are 100% dependent on shipping for food, fuel, finished goods, etc...

Edit: I'm not trying to put-down. The above is what I considered before posting this question.

No, not the "ocean-going" wildlife - that is termed pelagic. This would involve near-shore wildlife (and plants) -- including their dispersal propagules, such as eggs, larvae etc. In addition, there are terrestrial organisms that can swim to a ship and stow away or attach. The Navy has hed hell with the brown tree snake which we think got onto cargo planes in WWII or soon afterwards and spread all over some other islands.

Frieghters are subject to extensive rules as well. BUT cargo can usually sit for awhile w/o complaining (allowing inspection, sanitization, etc.). Human ferry passengers will object if delayed. And, then can carry propagules on their person.

More people = more propagules = more risk.


ANd, sure the tourist thing is likely an issue. Nobody wants their culture swamped, their housing & land prices to sky rocket. Their favorite trails or eateries full of the unwashed...

In Wyoming, they hate seeing the Colorado people visit or move in.
In Oregon, it's Californians.
In the US it's Mexicans.
In Mexico, it's all those others from the countries to the south - I hear the Mexicans have very stringent immigration controls - deportation, etc.

But in any island ecosystem, species invasion is a very big problem.

[scottmandue]

FWIW I have been visiting Kauai for about fifteen years and as of late traffic and congestion is now on par with Los Angeles and I don't see any push to widen the highways most of which are two lanes.

"They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."
-Joni Mitchell-

[p911dad]

I have two questions in regard to Kauai's rights to local rule and their inherent right to self-determination. In NY State, local governments(meaning counties, towns and villages) can enact laws and rules to protect themselves from unwise or unlimited development, including zoning laws, planned development rules, etc. Can Kauai County revise or enact zoning rules to limit what developers can develop(ie, slow or stop hotels, use heavy mitigation rules to force hotels or malls deal in handling traffic, such as making developers make ruinous investments in local infrastructure to discourage them)? OR do developers already have control of the island government and it is too late to save it? They obviously cannot stop intrastate commerce as that is not a local rule issue. But there are other things that can be done.