Another defection from the 997GT3RSR
 

http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071206/FREE/71206001/1531/FREE

Tafel racing is the latest to defect from Porsche to the Ferrari F430 in the ALMS. Now I love that Ferrari everybit as much as I do the RSR, but I am starting to worry that at this rate, the RSR won't make future ALMS grids. I don't have a suggestion except for Porsche working harder to develop a competitive car, as I would hate to see ALMS go the route of restrictors to even the cars up.

I hope Porsche has some tricks up their sleeve to make the RSR competitive again. I know they came in second in GT2, but there never really was any doubt that Rizi Competizione was going to win the series.

A good friend of mine was part of the Taffel crew. I heard this some time ago. Know what he says is making the Ferrari dominant? V8 power.

That's too bad... I sure hope the engineers at Porsche get it all figured out soon...

And I thought the ALMS already uses restrictors. We got a tour of the Lizzards paddock a couple of years ago and they showed us the "new" restrictors that they were allowed to run.

What about the V10? Wasn't the CGT originally intended to be some type of racer? What happened to that?

Best,

Kurt

Oooh. Imagine that. Carrera GTs racing against Enzos? But if you were a team boss, would you trust Tomas Enge in one of those machines?

If Porsche were determined to clobber these guys, then we'd see a return to the finishes we saw in the 1980's. Think about a Cayman with a V-10.........

Based upon current Porsche marketing philosophy, I think there's a better likelihood of seeing a return to the GT1 concept from the late '90s, than of a hotrod Cayman.

Like a mid-engine V10 997?

:D

Best,

Kurt

You got it, baby. Where's the drooly smilie?

I really hope that the 998 has a V8.

+1000

Get it done. The Cayman is the future of Porsche racing.

ALMS "levels the field" with intake restrictors and added weight. It is anything but "heads up" racing. In such an environment, the sanctioning body decides who wins and by how much. Remember the last time Porsche won Daytona with a GT car, and the smaller tanks along with added weight and rev limiters they got for their trouble. Different sanctioning body, but same approach. Porsche is already making noise that they may not return next year in P2, if ALMS severely restricts the RS Spyder in an effort to keep the R8 out front. So, could the current RSR beat the Ferrari? Sure, if the ALMS wants it to. Will the next, improved Porsche beat Ferrari? Only if ALMS wants it to.

so ..
their not racing really..for TV & spectators maybe..
outcome has been decided..

Rika

I'd like to say a racing Cayman, but they are probably afraid it will hurt 911 sales. (Did the 914, which was raced, hurt 911 sales?)

But Jeff is right, the "rules" determine the winners.

But the Porsche Co. of old..did just just that...
beating them at their own games, now it's
past glories & profits

Rika

Porsche has long been a master of exploiting racing rules to build a superior car. Heck, the RS Spyder is just the most recent example.

They also have a long history of being slapped down by sanctioning bodies who wanted someone else to win.

I read an article in RACER last summer about "Peterson White Lightning Racing" and how they switched from the 997 in 2006 to the 430 in 2007.

What they described as the real advantage was the better (ie. easier and more forgiving) handling of the 430. They believed straight line speed was about the same between the 2. I think the engine packages are comparable. It's the chassis that needs to be improved to be more competitive.

It's stuff like this that makes me mad as hell.. Porsche use to be a POWER HOUSE in motorsport.. what the HELL is going on!? Sure they make a ice GT3/RS/RSR. but they need to get with the F*cking programand make a damn race car that win the GT class again! there is NO excuse for this crap!

While I want to see Porsches on the podium, loosing to Ferrari is not an embarassment. They have a long, rich history of of winning races, just as Porsche does.

Also, it's not like the Ferraris are totally crushing the competition, like the 917 did to them back in the early '70's.

Loosing to Kia would be a different story.

this 2007 / 8, what you did in the middleages is good for Posters,pics ..
for Porsche to wobbling/falling in the GT class is SAD, Le Mans...belongs to Audi..don't know why the others show up..sloppy seconds and third.
917 was Porsche...the Spyder while great ..took to long , Acura will soon spank it anyway..
oh and Pontiac..that evil american car co. has handed Porsche it's panties several times.
Rika

Spoken with true ignorance like never before. When i was at the Utah ALMS race, there is very long straight away that is a good indicator of power (You could watch the R10's blow the RS-Spyders out of the water), and the Ferrari's had no noticeable advantage at all. If anything it looked as if the flying lizards would catch up during the straights although that could have been drafting and not because of power. However, and this was seen at the back of the GT2 pack, when those rsr's start stepping out, there's no getting them back. Most of the GT2 car's in the back got there because they went a$$ first off the track. During that race all 3 ferraris stayed out front for most of the race, then started dropping like flies when they broke down. The cornering speeds and stability around corners were amazing and they never went off the track, until they broke down and voluntarily pulled off the track. The only advantage the RSR's had was there reliability from being raced and well known for so long. So after all 3 F430's broke down, then the fly lizard team was able to easily take the win. Now that the F430's are getting some age and experienced usage, there is no advantage to the RSR's.
It's hard to inspire confidence in your driver when the car is squirming around midway and out of corners. Maybe if porsche would place the engine in the correct position in the 911 or use the cayman, it would make for a close and competitive battle with their italian nemesis.

The Pontiac gets to break all the rules for Grand Am.

The production G6 GXP is a front-engined, FWD, supercharged V6 with a unibody.

The racing G6 GXP is a front-engined, RWD, NA V8 with a tube chassis.

GM is often allowed to do this. When the CTS was raced, they were allowed to change the car's wheelbase.

And when they were racing the GTO in grand am, they allowed the use of an independent rear suspension setup instead of the soild rear axle you normally get in a production GTO.

Are you Swang? Or Maxim?

Now the Corvettes in GT1 at ALMS are dominating.

Will there be any other GT1 entries next year?

Legion, I really don't know anything about the 'rules' but why participate..
if the rule council has determined the outcome anyway.
folks don't hear or understand the 'rules' ..what they see & hear Pontiac winner of Daytona..Rolex 24..
has a Fabcar Porsche even won one race ?
Rika


Rika

Thanks Red. The person who made the statement has forgotten more about Porsches & racing, than you will know if you live to the end of creation. My friend was wearing a Master Tech ring in the 70's, has been to factory training on virtually every model introduced in the past 30 years. Quite a few weekends a year he is being flown here or there, and paid to be a crew member, most recently for Taffel.

I have no doubt you are privy to more accurate info than he is, and doubtlessly couldn't compare racing knowledge.

now Mulie..what did I state to deserve that ?
Rika

Sorry Rika, I was reading all the partial sentences in your last post & thought aw oh, here we go again.
Sorry.

My understanding is that the GT class in Grand Am is supposed to be production-based cars with mild changes to make them track-worthy.

The G6 GXP-R bears no resemblance to its production cousin.

And I believe the Mazda gets the same treatment as Pontiac, tube frame chassis, etc.

I'd love to see a tube-framed 911 out there.

Heck, we could even spot everyone else 20 years of technology and just run a tube-framed '87 930.

It often seems that way. :(

Yes, but Porsche did.....enter?.........the Trans-Syberian Rally...

thx Legion,
Mule...SmileWavy

Rika

I'm calling it how i see it. If i can watch a car go down a 1/2 mile straight and not seemingly out power the one next to it, but get blow away on the other 70% of the track consisting of nothing but turns, then what do you expect me to say? I'm sure your "friend" has credentials up the yang, but to make an ignorant statement like having a certain number of cylinders makes a car with an infinite number of other variables superior, is flat out ignorant. I guess my comment about it being rear engined as a handicap means nothing, after all what do F1 ENGINEERS know about the subject. And btw, apparently your friend is so knowledgeable about porsches that he knows more than the engineers who originally designed the car/engine combination that has been dominating GT2 up until now.
But hey what do engineers in racing know? After all v8 powa is where it's at, we should scrap any further use of any engine other than a v8. After all, Mule's friend is a tech, and he said so......

BTW, try reading the comments from about a year ago when Peterson White Lightening was first testing their acquired F430. The driver who's name i can't remember was singing praises about the car's handling, saying that he felt more confident pushing the car to it's limit. I guess what he didn't know was that it was actually the v8 powa that was helping it corner so well.

I've listened to Team White Lightning driver interviews and those guys stated that the Ferrari was a much easier car to drive than the RSR.

Horsepower and weight figures are interesting. The RSR has more HP but a lot less torque, which would imply that the Ferrari could probably exit a corner more quickly, but might be a little slower at the end of a long straight. Also, the Ferrari is about 100 to 125 Kg lighter than the RSR. This lighter weight would probably lead to a braking advantage too, I would think.

I got this off of 6speedonline:

2007 Porsche 997 RSR
Dry Weight: 1225 kg (100 litres capacity, FT3 safety fuel cell with FIA homologated quick fill couplings)
Power: 485/357

2007 Ferrari F430GT
Weight: 1.100 kg for FIA races, 1.125 kg for ACO races (all the liquids at the
standard level, without fuel and driver).
Power: 440/470

Scott, racing 250cc motorcycles with no torque, I've learned that the secret to fast lap times is corner exit speed. It doesn't surprise me at all that increased torque leads to faster lap times.

So in conclusion, can we say that the RSR is a fast car that can't compete with the F430 in the corners? This seems a likely conclusion, and if so, does that mean that the Porsche tradition of rear-engined cars has reached the end of the road in terms of the racetrack, or will Weissach dream up an improvement to bring the RSR to the front of the GT2 grid? The rear engined formula has been written off as obsolete nearly as long as it has been around, so I wouldn't be surprised to find the boffins in Germany make the next step in its evolution, but that Ferrari is mid-engined, aluminum, and as well engineered as any. So long as there is a Porsche and a Ferrari in close competition in GT2, I am a happy guy.