Anybody here design/engineer wastewater processing plants?

[berettafan]

I am serving on our towns utility commission and would love to get some insight on certain issues from anyone who has experience with water/sewer utilities.

It's an odd request, i know, but we seem to have such a variety of professions here on Pelican that i thought it'd be worth a shot

[legion]

Hmm...the wife of a coworker has worked as a drinking-water engineer for a local municipality and as a wastewater engineer for an oil refinery and an automobile manufacturer. I'll see if she can peel herself away from WOW long enough to answer your question.

[Les Paul]

What kind of questions do you have?

[berettafan]

thanks leg; questions would be:

-what is the latest/greatest technology (economically feasible) in wastewater treatment (we are discussing ENR plants right now)

-what is the expected useful life of such a plant (are major upgrades likely within 10yrs or so?)

-have you seen ENR plants implemented in smaller municipalities and if so what was the effective cost (in terms of hook up fees, etc)? It looks like we may see some serious increases in hookup fees to pay for the plant we may build and i'm curious if other towns have run into the same issue and how they dealt with it.


thanks!

[Les Paul]

What kind of GPM flows are you going to be dealing with?

[HarryD]

What is driving the need?

If it is the regulatory authorities, then you can talk until you are blue in the face but you better already know what they have approved and disapproved already. Face time with the permit writers is invalauble in saving you time and effort in selecting technologies and setting control limits. Often a local consultant (I used to do this both for paying clients and some of my former employers) with ties to the regulators can help you walk the correct path to help you save $$ while the regulators get what they need.

Like many things in life, begin with the end in mind and know what the other guy wants before you open your mouth.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by berettafan

thanks leg; questions would be:

-what is the latest/greatest technology (economically feasible) in wastewater treatment (we are discussing ENR plants right now)

-what is the expected useful life of such a plant (are major upgrades likely within 10yrs or so?)

-have you seen ENR plants implemented in smaller municipalities and if so what was the effective cost (in terms of hook up fees, etc)? It looks like we may see some serious increases in hookup fees to pay for the plant we may build and i'm curious if other towns have run into the same issue and how they dealt with it.


thanks!

I would suggest you informally chat with your counterparts in these other towns to find out how they got to where they are and what the impacts they are seeing. Since you are not their competitors, they should be very willing to share what they know.

[Danny_Ocean]

Sorta related: The doo-doo plant we had (have?) in San Diego was "experimental" and consisted of a large drying field covered with water-lilies. Apparently, the lillies absorbed the bacteria that caused odor. You could stand right next to the field and not smell a thing.

Now, here in FLA, on a good day, you can smell the sheet plant for 5 miles. The place looks (and smells) like an above-ground septic tank.

Is there any reason to have these plants emit odors in this day & age?

[island911]

water/sewer - it runs down hill. I think that about covers the topic.

[HardDrive]

Here, I whipped this up for you. You will be getting my bill for $200,000 in the mail.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally Posted by berettafan

I am serving on our towns utility commission and would love to get some insight on certain issues from anyone who has experience with water/sewer utilities.

It's an odd request, i know, but we seem to have such a variety of professions here on Pelican that i thought it'd be worth a shot

My In-laws own a major supply co. to waste water treatment plants. My wife used to work for them. They are the people you want to speak with. The "authorities", including the DNR, are woefully uninformed about much of what you are dealing with. The owner of the company gives seminars all over the states and is considered one of the foremost authorities on the topic. The name of the company is NCL and they are located in Birnamwood Wisconsin. They likely already supply your local wastewater treatment plant. I would e-mail them and explain your situation and ask the questions. The person your looking for isJ erry. Here's the link-

http://www.nclabs.com/

Do me a favor, DO NOT tell them I sent you. Family thing.

[M.D. Holloway]

I have given many seminars for the CWEA (California's Waste Water association) as well as the NJWEA (New Jerseys) and have many contacts here at the City of Dallas Waste water authority. Feel free to PM me specific questions and I will talk to the experts for you.

[berettafan]

Les we are currently at .6 mgpd and are looking at expanding to .75 to 1.0.

[cstreit]

The best man at my wedding/best friend is a principal engineer at some in the Chicago area, some of the biggest in the world. I got a tour once, trust me, despite the neat engineering factor, just stay away... It really is nasty and dangerous.

However I'm sure he'd be happy to speak with you, PM me and I can set you up.

One interesting fact, as soon as 10 years ago when they drained the aeration tanks they would find a collection of buttons and synthetic material at the bottom. You see, bodies don't EVER float in these and the little beasties in the water can't eat the synthetic stuff. Now after higher security that hardly EVER happens.

[RoninLB]

a bit ot ot but i had a NY water plant A1 operator's license.

last I looked a small sewer plant quickly becomes very expensive. Some small towns have just run a pipe to a big plant.


How many M gal/day is needed ?


Also... power plants are more interesting than water or sewer.

LA Dept of Water & Power is a class act and worth a visit. At least one power plant years ago used high pressure steam that was so off the charts it was called "stuff". The total amount of different machinery necessary to run these plant is extraordinary.

[TerryBPP]

I've done some pretty complex lift station and force main design but never a plant.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

Sorta related: The doo-doo plant we had (have?) in San Diego was "experimental" and consisted of a large drying field covered with water-lilies. Apparently, the lillies absorbed the bacteria that caused odor. You could stand right next to the field and not smell a thing.

Now, here in FLA, on a good day, you can smell the sheet plant for 5 miles. The place looks (and smells) like an above-ground septic tank.

Is there any reason to have these plants emit odors in this day & age?

No. Absolutey not. Most of that smell is methane which should be contained and burned to generate elextricity. Lots of sewage plants do just that. Instead of an open tanks they now pump the sewage into a large digester where bacterial decomposition is encouraged. The off-gas is collected and cleaned and fed to large engines which power generators.

If they are still alowing that gas to go to aqtmosphere, it's because the design is really old and they don't have or don't want to spend the money to upgrade it.

[Les Paul]

I've worked at a large Chemical plant. In the ******* of the plant. Love it. Nobody messes with us. 750-1m gallons a day. It is mostly effluent streams from operating units with wicked chemicals. We have a settling tank first, the anaerobic reactor, aeration basin, and clarifier. The anaerobic reactor is as the title says without oxygen. The bugs there break down chemicals and release 65% nitrogen, 35% methane and H2S. We pipe it to our boilers and burn it. So our first pass gets the really nasty smelling stuff out of the air before it goes to the basin. I'm not sure how many municipal systems use an anaerobic system but they work well. You might do some googling on them they are far superior to open topped systems.

The only drawback you'd have to flair the waste gas if you didn't have someplace to go with it and in this day and age you don't see many flares.