Computer-based multitrack recording and other questions

[304065]

In the old days we would have used a four-track.

What is the modern equivalent? Will a standard PC sound card be sufficient to digitize the signal, either real-time or from another recording device?

Does anybody still record on DAT?

What is a good cheapo mic for recording vocals and acoustic guitar, an SM58 or something? Isn't an SM58 balanced output? How would you get that into a computer?

Is there a piece of software recommended for multitrack editing?

Thanks, I am in the stone age when it comes to digital mastering.

[304065]

Garageband? "Blue" USB mic?

[livi]

Good post right on time. I will also be interested in what initiated people have to say about this. I am about to revive parts of the old band and preferably be able to record too.

[stomachmonkey]

Blue did not get such great reviews.

I use a Tascam USB device. Supplies power for mics as well.

[Christien]

John, you've asked a mouthful! There are hundreds of apps for recording out there, some free, some not, some very expensive. Generally, you get what you pay for, but most have demo versions you can try out.

Your biggest limitation as far as multitracking is concerned is your soundcard, because it only allows two lines in (line in L and R), assuming it's a standard garden-variety sound card.

www.homerecording.net is a great site for learning some of the basics. It's a steep learning curve, no doubt, but not insurmountable.

You can get a very good recording for not much money, but not for free. But you will need a TON of time, especially you're first time trying. But it's a ton of fun!

[nostatic]

what is your goal? What kind of material, where, how many instruments, etc.

You can go anywhere from 2-track to as many-as-your-computer-can-handle. Used to be that ProTools was the gold standard but things have changed and "native" apps like Logic, Live, Sonor, etc I think are the way to go. Just depends on your budget, needs, etc.

Mics is a whole other discussion. I am a huge fan of Oktava MC012 mics. Cheap and sound great.

And to answer your question, no, nobody does DAT anymore

[HardDrive]

Please give us some kind of budget to work with. Are you on PC or Mac?

[mjshira]

I recommend you go with a mac unless you don't have one. If you have a PC, tell us what kind. Some sound cards require a certain motherboards and you are right that you'll probably want to investigate what you want to accomplish and then we can assist with the type of sound card you'll want.

'generally' mac has much more to offer in the media area.

so tell us some more details and we can go from there.

[stomachmonkey]

Sound cards are limiting. They are not portable.

External USB/Firewire devices can be had for the same price point.

Most will supply phantom power for mics.

Tascams and mboxes will do this.

Define what you want out of multi track.

Record a band with playing together with each audio source going to a separate track or record instruments/voices one or two at a time with each going to a separate track that you assemble later?

If the later then something from here should fit the bill

http://www.sweetwater.com/c683--FireWire_Audio_Interfaces

http://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_Audio_Interfaces

The Tascam and mBox stuff (as well as the others) will come with Steinberg CuBase, Pro Tools Lite or something comparable.

[Rob Channell]

This place has low priced sm-58 and sm-57 mic copies if that is the route you go. $30
http://www.speakerrepair.com/index.html

Some of the computer interfaces will come with at least a limited version of recording software. I am trying a Presonus Firewire interface, but seem to experience stutters in playback of recordings. So far it is not figured out although I have heard there is the possibility of a conflict with the AMD processors (which I have in my system). My one step left to try is to buy another Firewire card that uses the TI chipset. I wouldn't recommend the Presonus stuff (yet) based on my short experience.

[nostatic]

in audio, you want stuff that works. You don't want to start dicking around with things otherwise you'll just get old fast.

If you have/buy a mac, this stuff just works. Really.

On the Mac side, Logic has gotten a lot easier to use, and depending on what you want to do it can be great. Other choices are Live (www.ableton.com, but more loop based), ProTools (you have to use their hardware), Digital Performer (they - www.motu.com - make great usb/firewire interfaces as well), and on the lower end Garageband.

[Sonic dB]

Nostatic posted the best reply question: What is your goal?

Not to bore you with my background but part of it is that I did spend 3.5 years as the sales manager for a digital audio sound card and studio gear manufacturer, and Im pretty familiar with the industry on both the hardware and software side. I used to use Pro Tools exclusively on the Mac but now that I am on PC, I used Sonar and I love it quite a bit. It is a stable product, that sounds great, is easy to navigate through and use, and the MIDI capabilities are perhaps the best in the industry as it started out years ago as Cakewalk and MiDI product only at that point.

Currently Im using that product and also my former companies soundcards and digital clocking unit (note that my former company is now defunct as of a couple years ago, but the units were among the top of the line in their heyday 3-5 years ago).

to your questions:

What is the modern equivalent? Will a standard PC sound card be sufficient to digitize the signal, either real-time or from another recording device?

* I would say No to that, unless you want to just hack out some simple demo-quality songs...but to do pro-quality, you will probably need a pro audio sound card that has a) professional inputs and outputs b) quality a/d and d/a converters and clocking c) low latency recording capability (aka no delay between what you play and how long it takes the computer to record and play it back) d) good to great driver and software compatibilty support e) great sound. f) how many inputs do you need? are you tracking an entire band, or a drum kit, or do you work alone solo? g) what type of inputs...are you doing any micing or is it all 1/4" inputs, do you need MIDI i/o? digital i/o?

Does anybody still record on DAT?

Not really except for some master down to DAT, or use it for achieving. It is still a viable format but less and less in the recording "industry" as hard disk is much cheaper, faster and easier to backup.

What is a good cheapo mic for recording vocals and acoustic guitar, an SM58 or something? Isn't an SM58 balanced output? How would you get that into a computer?

SM58 or 57 are good to mic guitar amps but as a dynamic mic, wont be your best bet (usually) for micing acousic guitar, or vocals (though it highly depends on what you are trying to mic and what "sound" you are trying to get... a 58 can sound good on vocals (Lennon used one extensively in the studio) but it will sound entirely different than a higher quality condensor...also it depends on what type of music you are recording...rock, jazz...blues...classical...voice etc.

Is there a piece of software recommended for multitrack editing?

Pro Tools is kind of the industry standard, but is expensive for the typical beginning home recordist with the interfaces that you would need. A better option would be to look into Cakewalk Sonar, Logic Audio or even Steinberg Cubase or Samplitude, other options include Adobe Audition and other software including loop-based that are more for techno or dance music.

I think a great thing for you to do is to check out some recording forums such as www.audioforums.com www.homerecording.com and others to check out what they have. Sonar has a great user forum too if you want to learn about their software at http://forums.pelicanparts.com/forum.cakewalk.com

the considerations that you should look at are your budget, your expectations, what music you are going to record, what are popular soundcards...be very careful with reviews, and only use them as backups to make your decision. Reviews are quite often skewed heavily by advertising dollars... good luck let me know if you have specific questions about anything and we will try to help

[Sonic dB]

in audio, you want stuff that works. You don't want to start dicking around with things otherwise you'll just get old fast.

+1

Mjshira makes a great point about PCs, chipsets and soundcard compatibility...again some of the forums that have been mentioned here are great resources to find out what is working and what is not working for people

[WolfeMacleod]

For PC, I like Cool Edit Pro 2.0.

[KFC911]

OK, I'm an "old fart" when it comes to live recordings, and even though I don't do it much anymore, I still use dat. While not professional multitrack recordings, they sound fantastic. My setup, a Sony PCM1 dat recorder (Tascam DAP1s are great too), decent $500 Sony stereo mic, an older highly regarded Zefiro ZA2 "digital!" soundcard , Oade patch/transfer cable and it's digital all the way through the process. Kind of like tube amps...if it ain't broke . Granted, if I were building a system today, it'd be multi-channel, matrix mixed to a hard drive, but good 2 channel digital recordings and transfers still sound fantastic to most folks and are a great way to capture "as it was live" recordings, without getting too deep into mic'ing techniques, mixing, etc. It's certainly "old school", but we're not all gone yet...

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by KC911

OK, I'm an "old fart" ...... It's certainly "old school", but we're not all gone yet...

Sent one of my guys to the store to grab some odds n ends. Last minute I tell him to "pick up a decent set of cans."

Return from a meeting and check my voicemail, "do you have a part # or something for those cans, been looking for half hour and no one in the store knows what they are"

Next message "uh nevermind, we found some "old guy like you" in the back who knows what they are"

[Christien]

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

For PC, I like Cool Edit Pro 2.0.

I still use CEP 2.0, because my needs haven't outgrown it yet. I've tried the larger packages - Cubase SX, Logic, Protools, and they're awesome, but have far more capabilities than I need and are expensive. I would buy Protools, but I'm on WinXP and I don't want to buy more hardware too - the overall price is just prohibitive.

The points about compatibility should be heeded. I used to think 'oh, whatever, it'll work, it always does'. Nope. There was a major compatibility issue between my at-the-time new M-Audio Delta card and my AMD processor. Recordings were filled with digital dirt - 10 or 20 little pops per second, making it absolutely useless. If I'd done my homework, I would've read that this was a known issue, and that AMD processors weren't supported at the time. It cost me probably 2 or 3 days in troubleshooting, which in the end was just wasted time.

That's another part of the reason why I'm still on CEP 2.0. I HATE wasting time screwing around with getting hardware and software to work, when I could be actually getting music written/recorded.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

For PC, I like Cool Edit Pro 2.0.

+1

I used Cool Edit to master 2 albums. I have used it to records live sets for years. Its simple to use, and has nice big meters on it that are easy to see from across the room.

I recently bought an external USB interface for my laptop (Lexicon), and it came with Cubase. I don't like it. I have tried Cubase on and off over the years, and it always seems like I spend way more time screwing around with the software than making music.