Am I Crazy? (SC Valuation)

[Superman]

Just checking with you guys. Waiting for the insurance company to respond to my first (and last) counteroffer. They initially offered $9K for my totaled car. I want to hear you guys estimate its actual worth. Be candid. I can take it.

There are many SC's on the market that can be had ("take" price) of $12-$13K. I say these cars will cost more than $20K including purchase, maintenance and repairs, over the next six years. Mine will not.

Description:

Cosmetically a 20-footer. This car has 272K on the odometer, and has the "patina" you would expect. Door dings. Rock chips. Yes, it needs body and paint work.

Headliner is in place, but there are small tears. Driver seat has a seam coming apart on the seatback. Seats do not look new, but are serviceable for now. The rest of the interior is in strikingly nice shape. Cleaned up, it does not look like a 272K car. Not at all.

That is the extent of the bad news.

Good news:

Desirable colors. Smoky Quartz Metallic factory paint. Burgundy interior.

Engine freshened in 2002. Cylinders had .0015" wear or less. WELL within spec. Piston ring lands showed NO wear. Head stud had snapped, and the head showed a ring at the head/cylinder joint, so all six heads were flycut and the cylinders were verified flat also.

All new valves, guides, seals. Installed by JW.
New rings
fresh bearings. All crank and rod journals were beautiful.
20/21 cams (made this car WAY more fun to drive) Remember, this is a small-runner SC engine, so intake velocity his high (9.3:1 CR). This engine has great torque as low as 1000 rpm. No kidding. Compression was around 180 on every cylinder.

Transmission was freshened by JW in October 2006. A bunch of parts. Dog teeth, sliders, etc. Whatever it needed.

Suspension was just gone through. New bushings. New shocks. Rack spacers. Turbo tie rods. New tires (Kumho MX). 26mm rear torsion bars. Corner balanced and aligned in July 2007.

Headlight relays, and 55/100 H4 bulbs in the "direct replacement" headlights available from Bosch and Hella. Mine are Hella.

Backdated heat. Early heat exchangers.

Car is just becoming smog exempt in Washington State.

Toolkit. Jack. Mint spare.

High pressure headlight washers. Fogs. Heated power mirrors. Power windows. Heated rear window. Sunroof. Yadda yadda.

As I say, this car had some cosmetic patina. Mechanically, I was running out of ways to improve her.

What would you guys consider a fair value? Really.

[frogger]

$10k +/-

[Moses]

ahhhh...patina.

[JBO]

$13k

[john walker's workshop]

even if you settled for $15K and bought another 911 for that amount, you would still have to put several thousand into it to get it as mechanically correct as your old one. all the SCs have high mileage now, carreras too, and they are going up in price because people realize what long lasting cars they are. they hold their value probably better than any car i can think of. mileage really doesn't mean as much with a 911 as with other, lesser cars. they're low ballin' ya in hopes of a quick closure.

[jorian]

Sounds like a 13K car to me. If the paint was better maybe 15K.

[nostatic]

all they see is 272K miles. I'd be shocked if you could get more than $10K from them. The only way to get more was if it was a low miles garage queen that had won concour events. A driver that has been totally rebuild under the skin isn't worth crap to most people or to an insurance company. Sucks, but that's my take on it.

[frogger]

Originally Posted by nostatic

all they see is 272K miles.

That, the "patina," and description of the interior made me say $10k +/-.

[Neilk]

Well, buy your car back from the insurance as salvage, buy a nice looking SC with a very questionable engine (to find one, call MotorMeister and ask if they can provide some referrals),
then transfer all your stuff over to the "new" SC.

P.S. Sorry... the above post was an unsolicited suggestion.

[the]

+ 1 on NS, although I'd be a little more optimistic on what you can get from them.

272K mile car that could use paint and bodywork. You never could have gotten more than $12-13K for that car, as described, if you put it on the market to sell it. In selling an old car, a $2000 shiny paint job goes a lot further than a $2000 trans rebuild. So if the definition of its value is "what could you have sold it for," that would IMO be around the top end.

The 5 year old top end job and rebuilt trans isn't going to add much. They would expect that a car closing in on 300,000 miles has had parts rebuilt.

But if their initial offer was $9K, I wouldn't be shocked if they'd be willing to pay a little more than $10K to get rid of you. Maybe 12-13.

[dd74]

$10K max. $9K isn't bad for an old car, which it really is.

Sure, a student of the 911 knows exactly about the 911's stoutness and its abilities, particularly when maintained. But who's to say that same person will issue you an insurance check? To anyone else, the car is 24 yrs. old.

I'd cut my losses and move on.

[Rick Lee]

FWIW, I got $19.8k for my SC a year and a half ago. Similar engine to yours (100k miles total though), perfect paint, new suspension and some nice other mods.

[frogger]

Rick, are you saying you got nearly $20k with 100k on the engine? The buyer was willing to roll the dice with head studs.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

FWIW, I got $19.8k for my SC a year and a half ago. Similar engine to yours (100k miles total though), perfect paint, new suspension and some nice other mods.

totally different car. Perfect paint, 170K less miles, better interior make the comparison a non-starter.

[Craig 930 RS]

Always, always, provide comparable cars as proof/demonstration of value.
Fact & data will usually sway 'em.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by frogger

Rick, are you saying you got nearly $20k with 100k on the engine? The buyer was willing to roll the dice with head studs.

No, I had 5k miles on the rebuild, which was done similar to Superman's rebuild. 100k miles total on the odometer.

Yes, it was a very different car, but since the buyer wanted it for DE's only, the engine, tranny and suspension were what mattered and it sounds like Superman's tranny was in better shape than mine.

[Jeff Higgins]

My son Chris paid $10.5k for his '79 SC. 95k documented original miles, fresh documented tranny rebuild, leather sports seats, guards red with whale tail. Has some bubbling in the paint after a re-spray, indicating poor surface prep. Pretty clean other than that. Of course he had it for a year and then spun a bearing at a track day... between that and the other things we always find on these old cars, it's closer to a $20K SC now, but I wouldn't expect him to be able to sell it for much more than his initial purchase price.

[Wrecked944]

I had a similar situation with a 1980SC. The car had a "true" 3.0 Carrera motor installed with PMO's, backdated exhaust, upgraded suspension etc etc. Unfortunately, it blew up (literally!) on the Mass Pike due to a leaking fuel filter. It had high miles and crap paint. But it was fast - perfect for someone (like me) looking for a weekend racer.

Anyway, the insurance company offered me peanuts. So I hired a certified appraiser to argue my case for more money. I think I paid him $400. And I chose him because he sold p-cars for a living and understood what an enthusiast might pay for a hot-rodded 911SC with poor aesthetics. I got over $15K for the car.

Conclusion is that hiring an appraiser who can argue the worth of your car to a particular subset of buyers (like weekend p-car racers) can help you get a better deal.

[tcar]

A 20 footer with 272k miles? I would not pay $10k for it. Even with documentation on the engine work.

I recently bought a 20 footer with 154k miles with the engine done and documentation for $8500.

Both still need a $4k paint job to look decent.
Of course in Europe, it would be a $15k car.

[Porsche_monkey]

I'm with the $10k crowd. You can get a mid 80's 3.2 car with much lower mileage for under $15k. And I'd take the mid 80's car any day.