A Bit of Shame

[cairns]

Dear Frogger.

Yes I served. Regular Army. Only two years. 1/81st. Spec 4 and Acting Jack.

It taught me quite a bit. Self Discipline. Tolerance. How to respect and relate to people from all walks of life- and work with them to get things done (we call that Esprit de Corps). Respect for tradition, sacrifice and superiors. Not to mention a much greater sense of history and a love for virtually all things European.

BTW I FULLY support the war in Iraq and it troubles me greatly that that so many on the left seem determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and have absolutely no sense of history or sacrifice.

To see things on this board like a picture of Hiroshima posted on Pearl Harbor Day is troubling- but then again I think the vast majority of we who served have learned to be tolerant of those who differ. So I'm hoping you might want to remember that those who didn't serve have viewpoints that are just as valid and worthy as your own- and I will trust that your question did not imply that they don't.

[frogger]

Cairns, that's great. You and flinstone and other Iraq war supporters have some idea about what you support. I respect your opinion, just disagree with it. I am not a leftie, but I am one who is very reluctant to go to war. War's costs go way beyond the battlefield. So, if you think about the human costs (including a possible lifetime of rehab for some), and the costs to the economy, you better be awfully damn sure it's the right thing to do. I'm just galled by the those that have no clue talking about going to war like it's playing some freaking video game. I'll stop ranting and let those that feel a bit of shame, continue to do so without my haranguing.

[Hard-Deck]

My son is 19 now. When he was 17, the neighbor across the street was talking to him. He was voicing his opinion about Bush and the war in Iraq, and what we should be doing and not doing, and more about the war in Iraq. My son looked at him and said, "oh yeah, is that what you experienced in Iraq?" The neighbor said, "I haven't been to Iraq." My son's response, "Well then you need to shut the f**K up." I gave my son a high-five.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Snapper33

My son is 19 now. When he was 17, the neighbor across the street was talking to him. He was voicing his opinion about Bush and the war in Iraq, and what we should be doing and not doing, and more about the war in Iraq. My son looked at him and said, "oh yeah, is that what you experienced in Iraq?" The neighbor said, "I haven't been to Iraq." My son's response, "Well then you need to shut the f**K up." I gave my son a high-five.

HUH? I would have given my son a backhand across the head for being so disrespectful.

The state of parenting today sucks: no discipline but plenty of reward for bad, petty behavior.

[cairns]

Wow you've raised a little snot who's intolerant of other's opinions and states so in the crudest way possible.

You must be proud- you obviously have no shame. You also make a great argument for forced sterilization.

[Moneyguy1]

"Opinions that vary from mine are unacceptable"

The mantra of oh, so many today......

[Laneco]

When I was young enough to serve, I didn't want to. Then 9/11 happened and I learned something about myself. Turns out, this fat middle aged soccer mommy is a patriot...

Long and short, if you are in uniform anywhere around me, you'll never pay for your meal, your coffee etc. You won't know who did pay for it because I don't want you go know. I address it discreetly with the server and instruct them to to NOT tell you who is picking up the tab. The only thing a serviceman needs to know is that somewhere in this crowd of people there are people who recognize and appreciate the sacrifices you have made.

Never have I parted with money so happily than picking up the tab for those who serve.

angela

[Seahawk]

I have decided to retire this summer after almost 26 years as a Naval Officer...there are many reasons why, but the most pressing is that there are some very appealing opportunities for me in the private sector/government due to my involvement in Unmanned Air Systems the last four years, an area that is experiencing tremendous growth. That and my own little Journey to Ixtlan is almost complete

There is no shame in not having served, there is only shame in belittling those that do.

BTW, I chose a commission in the Navy not out of patriotism or a sense of service. I was as selfish in my decision as I was specific: I either get to fly or no dice. My plan was to get my wings, fly off of ships for a tour and then get out when my obligation was up. So what do I know

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Laneco

When I was young enough to serve, I didn't want to. Then 9/11 happened and I learned something about myself. Turns out, this fat middle aged soccer mommy is a patriot...

Long and short, if you are in uniform anywhere around me, you'll never pay for your meal, your coffee etc. You won't know who did pay for it because I don't want you go know. I address it discreetly with the server and instruct them to to NOT tell you who is picking up the tab. The only thing a serviceman needs to know is that somewhere in this crowd of people there are people who recognize and appreciate the sacrifices you have made.

Never have I parted with money so happily than picking up the tab for those who serve.

angela

Now that is cool. Thanks. Next one is on me.

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

HUH? I would have given my son a backhand across the head for being so disrespectful.

The state of parenting today sucks: no discipline but plenty of reward for bad, petty behavior.

Nope, I've fought /served for 21 years now for people to have the right to freedom of speech. I figure at 17 he's good. If he were seven, then maybe.

Respect is earned, not automatic just due to age.

Freedom of speech is only not a right in the military for reason, everyone else gets it.

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by cairns

Wow you've raised a little snot who's intolerant of other's opinions and states so in the crudest way possible.

You must be proud- you obviously have no shame. You also make a great argument for forced sterilization.

Wrong, the neighbor has a history of giving me ***** for being in uniform.

Sterilization? I didn't know you were a NAZI.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I guess you are right. At 17, you've already taught him all the bad lessons in life possible. Why start then? Respect among peers is earned, but why do I think that's going to fall on deaf ears? Children are ALWAYS respectful of adults in day to day life.

Dude, don't wrap yourself in your Service when called out on the carpet for bad parenting. that's disrespectful! don't try to shuck and jive yourself out of this.

[Rearden]

Originally Posted by Snapper33

My son is 19 now. When he was 17, the neighbor across the street was talking to him. He was voicing his opinion about Bush and the war in Iraq, and what we should be doing and not doing, and more about the war in Iraq. My son looked at him and said, "oh yeah, is that what you experienced in Iraq?" The neighbor said, "I haven't been to Iraq." My son's response, "Well then you need to shut the f**K up." I gave my son a high-five.

Well done. I can only imagine how annoying it would be to have the neighborhood moron trying to indoctrinate your kid.

[M.D. Holloway]

And here I always thought that we finally went into Iraq becuase they broke a bunch of UN sanctions repeatedly and basically never really allowed weapons inspectors to do their jobs and were pretty darn good at the whole intimidation and restriction of freedom thing.

Now I find out that the "war" is really nothing more than an imperial pursuit for oil and to create a wedge in the Islam world.

Man do I feel so stupid...

[M.D. Holloway]

Oh ya, for the record I am a huge wiseass to all friends and neighbors but I am not sure I would ever tell someone to shut the ***** up. If I ever heard Our Kids say that at any age I am sure I would:
1) Apologize to the offended for my lack for parenting skills
2) Have a very long, entailed talk about proper behaviour regardless of respect.

Trust me, my talks are far worse than a bloody spanking anyday...

[M.D. Holloway]

Angela - I have typicall pick up the tab for travelling collage kids when I see them in the airport. I have also done the same for young couples. I have not gottin the chance to do so for the enlisted but I will. Thanks for the idea.

[Hard-Deck]

I was raised by Greatest Generation parents. My son gets one the Greatest Generation passdown teachings that if someone disrespects you, your family, the Flag, or The President of the United States, they can shut up, or put up....

People who disagree probably also agree that it's O/K for Hugo to come to the U.S. and call the President the Devil and get away with it. Someone needed to tell him to shut the F**k up too.

I make no apologies for being a meat eater. I'll continue to protect leaf eaters.

[fintstone]

I suspect that most 17 year-olds with even a hint of testicle...whose father served in Iraq...would not hesitate to tell anyone who denigrated that service to "STFU!"

[Hugh R]

Originally Posted by frogger

Have ANY of you hawks served?

USMC, MOS 0844=forward observer for the 8" Howitzers and 175 mm guns. 1970-72

[Hard-Deck]

Thanks for your service Hugh. I only have one left in my ranks who worked 8-inch. How long does it take you to get laid.....laid-on that is.