A Bit of Shame
 

Whenever I see a service person in uniform, I usually avert my gaze. It's not because I don't respect them--I do. It's more because I feel that I'm not worthy of looking them eye-to-eye because I never chose to join the military.

Now I don't regret my decisions. I did what I felt was the best for me at various points in my life. I knew I wanted a career in business and that paying off student loans wouldn't be a problem. I've never been particulary interested in being in the military.

I don't regret my decisions, but I do regret that I didn't make different decisions. (Does that make sense?)

Thank them for their service, and move on...

When I was a youngster, one did not have a choice. So, I did volunteer rather than wait to be a ground pounder. Never regretted it. Enjoyed (for the most part) my time in the "Coastal Protective Association" (USCG for the rest of you..Semper Paratus!!)

Legion...if it makes you feel any better, the armed forces teach what appears to be contradictory things: To use your own initiative and to follow legitimate orders without hesitation. Strange world, ain't it?

On September 11, 2001 (I was 22), I was fully expecting GWB to give a "sacrifice" speech about the long conflict coming. I was expecting a draft, or at the very least a request for more volunteers. I was prepared to sign up (not sure what branch--was between Marines and Air Force).

That speech never came. A draft never came. A request for more volunteers never came. I went back to my life and forgot about it.

Absolutely. Nothing to be ashamed of unless one talks schit/debases them when they are not around. When I turned 18, in 1977, the military was not a common choice for most of my classmates. A few went in, but not many. It was only a couple years after Viet Nam finally ended, (along with the draft), and no one perceived the U.S. to be under any type of military threat at that time.

None-the-less, I came "this-close" to enlisting in the Navy one year later, but chose to start college instead. If you were a draft-dodger/deserter/traitor or something I could see being ashamed, but not for any other reason. It's a volunteer military now, anyone in uniform chose to serve. Thank them and enjoy your freedom.

I feel kind of the same way. Whenever I'm in an airport and see a lot of servicefolks in uniform, I'm always hoping to see a lot of them standing in line at Starbuck's so I can just run up to the register, hand the clerk my credit card and tell them I'll pick up the tab for everyone in a uniform. But it hasn't happened. Closest I got was while standing on line at Pat's for cheesesteaks after a VH show, we saw some young servicemen come up to the line. We insistsed they cut in front of us and then insisted on paying their bill. But the lady working the register refused to charge them anyway.

I guess part of this is my bro-in-law just re-inlisted. He's a hoser, but I like the guy. He's also 35, but acts 21. (I'm 29 and act 29--I think.)

He did a six-month stint in the Army years ago. He was discharged as "unclassified". From what I gather, he didn't get the MOS he wanted and b!tched about it until he was discharged.

Now he has to do a 7½ year stint to "make-up" for the 3½ years he didn't serve originally.

Even though he's full of $h!t, he's still man enough to enlist.

I served, and I respect those that have/are/will serve. I do not respect those that so quickly assume it's fine to send these fine young people to foreign lands to fight elective wars or "police actions." Some people are just too cavalier when they throw out the phrase "protecting America's interests." I'd rather we just stuck with protecting America, period. Just my 2 cents.

Similar feelings -- I was one signature away (literally) from flying for the Navy, which I'd wanted to do for just about ever. My father and all uncles on both sides of my immediate family had served, and it was something I was just going to do... then I had a couple of unique opportunities come up and weighed where I might be 10 years later if I was flying vs. if I'd taken the other options.

I don't regret the choice, I'm not ashamed for not having served my country, but I envy and respect those that do.

There have been a few times I've sent drinks to men and women in uniform standing around some bar -- but I've done it anonymously. I'd rather they believe that it could be ANYone in the bar, rather than knowing it was me.

Syracuse is reasonably close to Fort Drum (10th Mountain) and I have many friends and acquaintances stationed there, active and reserve. A group getting ready to mobilize to Afghanistan (most of whom have already done a stint in Iraq) next week stopped in at my favorite ginmill over the holidays. I shook each one of their hands, looked them in the eye and said 'thank you' and bought a round - because I knew 3 of them and wanted to do the drink with them, I wasn't anonymous. :D

JP

Have ANY of you hawks served? :rolleyes:

Nope, anyone that served thinks just like you.

What a douche. Oh and thanks for your service:D

I go out of my way to extend them a hand and thank them for their service.

If I can pick up their tab I will gladly do it.

I disagree with why they are there but I appreciate what they do and the personal/financial sacrifices that they make on my behalf.

I come from a military family and was raised in the service.

Went to sign up and it was my father, the 20 year career guy and vet of Korea and Vietnam that talked me out of it.

I guess I should be bothered by this, but, at least you didn't call me a turd sandwich. :)

Post 9/11 I actually talked to a couple of recruiters. I was 30 then, so only one branch (Coast Guard) was interested in talking to me, never mind that at the time I was actively flying as a commercial pilot with over 1,000 hours in the book. I desperately wanted to do something and I respect the hell out of the men and women with the same passion and ambition, who happened to not have their birth date preclude them from enlisting.

Now, seeing how this administration has spit on their dedication and willingness to sacrifice on a useless crusade in Iraq, I'm very happy my fate ended up going another direction. I still respect our service personnel, but I have NO respect for this administration's proven willingness (and desire) to use them as pawns or as a blunt instrument.

I hope they get home soon. All of them. Where they can get back to the job of DEFENDING our country - not destroying other countries.

Why do you ruin so many of your good posts with some non-sensical insult at the end? We have literally flattened other countries in real defense of our own. Iraq hasn't seen anything like that. Have we nuked or carpet bombed entire cities there? Have we really destroyed Iraq? You gotta be kidding me. You know better than the stuff you write.

Each to his own calling. I respect miliary, police, firemen, nurses, teachers, peace corps, etc. Each has "served".

I was in ROTC but got a 4F due to medical condition. My dad, a WW2 vet, did not want me to get into the Vietnam war which I was supporting at that time. My parents were relieved when I got the 4F. I had other friends who continued on to regular Army.

How exactly did invading Iraq "defend the United States" then, exactly. Please be specific.

*sound of crickets chirping*

That quagmire is an affront to the honorable men and women that put on uniforms. We've accomplished nothing substantial there except blowing up a lot of stuff and installing a puppet government that will likely fail a month after we leave.

Oh, and oil is still $100 a barrel.

My wife and I make a habit of saying "Thank-you" to them, usually my wife wells up with tears too. We have Veteran license plates here too; we always give a thanking wave.

Being in the military is a very special calling; I wasn't blessed with the calling either, but my brother has now served over 25 years of his life. He just accepted a post with the UN in India for the next 3 years.

Look 'em in the eye and say thanks.
Cheers,

No crickets at all. It's been explained here ad nauseum. That you disagree with the reasons, or that those reasons contradict what you want to believe, does not mean it was not in defense of nat. security interests.

And the fact that oil has only gotten more expensive should convince folks that Iraq was not about oil. Americans' own sense of entitlement has been a far greater cause in gas price spikes than world events.

Rick:

Most of your arguments I can buy into or at least understand, but the cost of oil is one I cannot. It is, at least to me, a whole bunch of miscalculations and goof-ups that contribute to the proice of crude (yes, and I understand the world-wide increasing demand factor). I seem to recall that Iraqi oil was to pay for the war. Or is my memory failing me due to advanced years?

Oh, I agree totally that futures traders have run up the price of oil. However, our ever-increasing consumption, despite ever-increasing prices has vindicated their actions. If people here would just consume less, those traders would stop shooting the moon. I remember the gas price spikes after Katrina and thinking it might actually change people's behavior. But no, you still see humongous SUV's on the road all the time and people, while they complain and blame everyone else, still pay whatever it takes to fill'er up.

WWll vets are dying at over 1000 per day. 16 million served, 404,000 deaths. My uncle was the first flight mechanic on the B-29 based in India. I have listened and read many of his experiences. I took my dad back to Ipswich England where he was stationed in the Army Air Corps-later became the Air Force after the war. I have been rewarded by the sacrifice of the veterans and families of the WWll era.

John_AZ

John...

"Carefree Highway"? How far from Kolb and Golf Links in Tucson?

Welcome anytime to all the guys, but easier for desert rats!!

Moneyguy1,
Orig from Pima/Craycroft area. Moved north, Cave Creek/Carefree near Carefree highway.
John_AZ

Cool...Isn't there a street called "Ho Hum Lane" or something?

Sometimes when I'm out getting lunch or coffee with my troops, people come up to me and ask what they can do for them. I just tell them to say, "thank you", that's more than any service member could ask for....just a "thanks". We don't do it for money or lunch or coffee (although it is always appreciated, every time, thanks to those who've done it), we do it to serve others selflessly.

sounds like you have weapon envy...

Huh?

I almost never wear a uniform in public if I can help it; many people that I interact w/ have no idea of what I do and I almost didn’t even respond to this. I will usually change at work (base) instead of driving to and from in uniform and part of it is that I just want to be an average Joe when I’m out. I don’t want people wondering what I do when I stop for gas. I sure do not want to hear about their thoughts on the war and the president. I serve in the military, I’m thankful to do it, I choose to do it, and I prefer to keep it to myself.

When somebody does make a big deal about it and thanks me I feel guilty. I accept their thanks graciously but I’m always left feeling undeserving. Too many men and women greater than me have sacrificed much more for this country.

I'm sure I come across as liberal 'hand wringing ninnie' ;) to some, but I to sometimes regret not joining the military.

I went to Michigan State for Pre-law. I was looking at joining the Air Force to pay for my law school. It was a 6 year commitment. I didn't do it.

My life turned out better than I could have ever expected, but that was not without wasting a good 4-5 years casting about for a real life. I wonder what I could have achieved in a more structured environment.

Never underestimate your contribution. Humility is admirable if not taken to extremes.....

31 years:rolleyes:

I was 20 in 1980 when Regan was elected, and joined the Navy reserves as a hedge and to make a few bucks to help pay for college. It worked out well; I only was on active duty for eight months, and spend the rest of the six years going 1, sometimes 2 weekends a month to a base in New Orleans, plus two weeks during the summer (Spain, Portugal, Bermuda). I was an aircrewman aboard a P-3 Orion and tracked (acoustically) Soviet submarines in the Atlantic.

When I graduated in early '85, I was offered to an exit out of my final contract year if I would accept a commission, give up being an aircrew, and work as an intelligence officer on the ground. Oh, and commit to *SIX* more years of service. Sign here, Robert, and you're off to charm school.

With a new wife and no job prospects, it was tempting. But, I'd seen too many other officers come and go. I felt my opportunities in the civilian world would be better in the long term.

And, it worked out fine. When the Soviet Union fell a few years later, and all those subs got parked, the US Navy also parked hundreds of P-3 aircraft, and many of those pilots, flight officers, and ground-based officers were out of work, or faced with an undesirable transfer. I was happy with my time spent, and choices made.

I can't match fint.......only two years of active duty and 8 in the reserves.

I was drafted into the Army in early 1964, and went overseas later in the year. When I was in the U.S. in uniform, I just wanted to be maybe smiled at and be treated like I was human like everybody else. Young guys in the military then seemed to be considered pretty low on the social scale. As an E-1, I made $67/mo. and made a big $164/mo. when I got out as an E-4, but offering to pick up a check for me would have been kind of insulting. Pay while I was in wasn't a whole lot to make any progress on. I'm frankly amazed at what they make now.
I had a bunch of unique experiences and learned a lot of things, but somehow always thought the old guys who had been on the line in WWII when tens of thousands were killed each month had it much worse. When I got out it felt kind of strange, since most of the young guys in the population hadn't been in and had no ideas about it.
However not everybody follows, or is taken down, the same path so people who didn't have to go in or didn't go in just had a different path in life & shouldn't worry about it. I was happy at least to get the GI bill to help when I went to college and get a CalVet loan to help buy my first house. So I felt that was some kind of pay back.

That is funny. You are not worthy? I feel guilty that I didn't become an astronaut, I avert my eyes in front of them too.:rolleyes:

Excellent! SmileWavy

I'll also carry that shame to the grave. :)

F*** off.

you got a PM, Robert.