I wish I could move to Austrailia sometimes...
 

Anyone else see this. If it is all correctly quoted, I wish some of our leadership here in the US had this kind of guts...

Prime Minister John Howard - Australia

< /SPAN>

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Aust ra lia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture.. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore , if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, be cause God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beli efs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,


'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

WELL FREAKING SAID!

I don't know if its true, but I saw that same thing after the Bali bombings several years ago. But true or not, I agree with it.

Send a copy to your congresspeople. I am going to.

like him more than any of the republicans running this time.

I wish we had such brave politicians in Sweden. I agree aggressively.

Misleading title in a car forum (particularly with references to Australia and your sign-in name). I thought you were going to talk about V8 Supercars. Down the long downhill straight at Bathurst. Yowsa!

Nicely said by the politico, BTW.

Balls or stupidity? I'm not sure.

FWIW Howard was voted out in the November elections last year....

I think it was more because he had been the Prime Minister for so long rather than that particualr statement.

I support the general nature of the statement although I think it could be perceived as possibly racist. I think in trying so hard not to offend all of the various interest groups, the minorities voices sometimes become louder than the majorities. Its like some local councils not putting up Christmas decorations because they dont want to offend other religous groups.

However the other religous groups are free to celebrate their own festivals (religous or not) eg Hindus with Divali or Chinese New Year etc with no fear of offending anyone else. I'm certainly not offended ( i'm not religous anyway) but I like the fact that they have the freedom to do so, and the fact that these things are embraced by much of the population.

Why then should the existing traditions of our country (religious or otherwise) have to change? If I wanted to go and live elsewhere in the world I would expect to have to accept and embrace that country's way of life....

My Humble opinion anyway. And +1 on the Supercars at Bathurst Noah930. A lot of Aussies consider motorsport a religion ;)

Cheers, Cam

I met a bunch of Aussies and NZers over the years and all are very cool. Much more American than our Europian friends which is interesting because they are literally on the opposit side of the globe from us. I guess rouge beginnings bring about similar attitudes?

I agree with him to a point, although I have a bit of a problem with his pseudo-theocratic, xenophobic, closed-minded attitude.

Australia was founded as a penal colony, not as a "Christian nation". Much as America was founded as a refuge from religious oppression, not a "Christian nation".

I think this quote from the Treaty of Tripoli, endorsed by the early Congress of the United States and signed by John Adams says it well:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Given this, and that our founding fathers were deists (not Christians), and that there is ample evidence to indicate that their intent was to permanently isolate church and state I take exception to any implication that the United States should somehow follow Australia's lead on this particular matter.

I look at it this way:

Liberty is pretty much the distance between church and state. Every single time in history that government has mixed or mingled with religion, there has been an erosion of liberty and the rise of tyrrany.

I doubt either Australia or the United States really wants this.

These remarks date from several years ago, not last wednesday, and John Winston Howard, master of dogwhistle politics, lord of the wedge, is no longer the Prime Minister of Australia. He and his conservative govt have been removed.

I agree, Cam. I think those that work the racist angle are simply pushing divisive BS to support a particular agenda. The point is that immigrants need to adapt to their new country. They need to live within its established culture and laws, and, hopefully, contribute some of the good of their own culture to their new homeland. :)

Australia had an influx of Italian and Greeks in 50-60's. We (Australians) made fun of them at first but soon realised that these people were good folk who would do anything for you. These people have made a great contribution to the Australian way of life. I am a 4th Generation Australian yet both my siblings and myself married 1st generation Australians. They brought with them a lot of good things from their culture. What they didn't bring however was a religion that wants to rule the country by hook or by crook.

Agreed on the religion thing fellas.

Religion is something that should be kept separate from politics IMHO. Not something Howard was very good at!

Anyway I love the multiculturalism of Australia and all that it brings.

I guess I just don't want the traditions that I grew up with to disappear.

Cheers, Cam

I have a lot of friends in the various branches of the Australian military...I still go to "prayers" at the Australian Embassy from time to time:)

Been there many times and would not hesitate to set up shop in Australian for the long term.

I don't agree with any part of this, the rest of what you posted was not too good either, but this bit is the worst of it. Just because it is what you think does not make it true.

Aren't Australian beaches topless?

Can you give an example of any government that has ever allowed the intermingling of religion and politics with good results?

It is ALWAYS bad. There are very few absolutes in this world and I typically try to avoid using words like "always", "never", etc. but in this case it applies. Religion plus political influence equals tyrrany. ALWAYS.

Well I too love Australia. And think it's a shame that Howard lost.

But the conservatives will be back. The frothing twits from Kings Cross are but a temporary condition.

I think the best comments on this issue have already been made in one of my favorite columns by Charles Krauthammer back in June of 2006:

Why I Love Australia
By Charles Krauthammer

WASHINGTON -- In the Australian House of Representatives last month, opposition member Julia Gillard interrupted a speech by the minister of health thusly: "I move that that sniveling grub over there be not further heard.''

For that, the good woman was ordered removed from the House, if only for a day. She might have escaped that little time-out if she had responded to the speaker's demand for an apology with something other than "If I have offended grubs, I withdraw unconditionally.''

God, I love Australia. Where else do you have a shadow health minister with such, er, starch? Of course I'm prejudiced, having married an Australian, but how not to like a country, in this age of sniveling grubs worldwide, whose treasurer suggests to any person who "wants to live under sharia law'' to try Saudi Arabia and Iran, "but not Australia.'' He was elaborating on an earlier suggestion that "people who ... don't want to live by Australian values and understand them, well then they can basically clear off.'' Contrast this with Canada, historically and culturally Australia's commonwealth twin, where last year Ontario actually gave serious consideration to allowing its Muslims to live under sharia law.

Such things don't happen in Australia. This is a place where, when the remains of a fallen soldier are accidentally switched with those of a Bosnian, the enraged widow picks up the phone late at night, calls the prime minister at home in bed and delivers a furious unedited rant -- which he publicly and graciously accepts as fully deserved. Where Americans today sue, Australians slash and skewer.

For Americans, Australia engenders nostalgia for our own past, which we gauzily remember as infused with John Wayne plain-spokenness and vigor. Australia evokes an echo of our own frontier, which is why Australia is the only place you can unironically still shoot a Western.

It is surely the only place where you hear officials speaking plainly in defense of action. What other foreign minister but Australia's would see through "multilateralism,'' the fetish of every sniveling foreign policy grub from the Quai d'Orsay to Foggy Bottom, calling it correctly "a synonym for an ineffective and unfocused policy involving internationalism of the lowest common denominator''?

And with action comes bravery, from the transcendent courage of the doomed at Gallipoli to the playful insanity of Australian-rules football. How can you not like a country whose trademark sport has Attila-the-Hun rules, short pants and no padding -- a national passion that makes American football look positively pastoral?

That bravery breeds affection in America for another reason as well. Australia is the only country that has fought with the United States in every one of its major conflicts since 1914, the good and the bad, the winning and the losing.

Why? Because Australia's geographic and historical isolation has bred a wisdom about the structure of peace -- a wisdom that eludes most other countries. Australia has no illusions about the "international community'' and its feckless institutions. An island of tranquility in a roiling region, Australia understands that peace and prosperity do not come with the air we breathe, but are maintained by power -- once the power of the British Empire, now the power of the United States.

Australia joined the faraway wars of early-20th-century Europe not out of imperial nostalgia, but out of a deep understanding that its fate and the fate of liberty were intimately bound with that of the British Empire as principal underwriter of the international system. Today the underwriter is America, and Australia understands that an American retreat or defeat -- a chastening consummation devoutly, if secretly, wished by many a Western ally -- would be catastrophic for Australia and for the world.

When Australian ambassadors in Washington express support for the U.S., it is heartfelt and unalloyed, never the "yes, but'' of the other allies, perfunctory support followed by a list of complaints, slights and sage finger-wagging. Australia understands America's role and is sympathetic to its predicament as reluctant hegemon. That understanding has led it to share foxholes with Americans from Korea to Kabul. They fought with us at Tet and now in Baghdad. Not every engagement has ended well. But every one was strenuous, and many quite friendless. Which is why America has such affection for a country whose prime minister said after 9/11, "This is no time to be an 80 percent ally,'' and actually meant it.

You have to know Australians to know something about Australia. The American media isn't going to tell you a thing.

How many of you know that the ozone hole is a big problem in Australia, and people have to wear sunscreen when they go outside on sunny days?

Why in the world would you want to move Down Under, all the blood would rush to yer haid and U couldn't get it up because of that.

Cut me a break. I've visited OZ for over fifteen years- usually for extended trips. I have a number of close friends there. I've been all over that country and love it as much as my own.

If anyone wears sunscreen it's to prevent sunburn- same as anywhere else in the world. Australians are anything but quivering chicken littles waiting for Al Gore to give them permission to go outside with their sunscreen and parasols. I know they have a few of those (by and large in Sydney) but your statement is ridiculous.

If YOU knew anything about Australia you'd know this- and you'd also know that much of Southern Australia (esp. Tasmania) can be sunless, wet and cold during Winter (and yes they even have ski resorts but anyone with money just goes to NZ).

So get off it.

They wear sunscreen in Perth. And I do know what I am talking about.

i agree with the sentiment that people are free to leave if they don't like it, they are free to assimilate if they do. i find it VERY annoying that we are constantly forced to bow down to other cultures in our own borders. this isn't racist, as i am talking about all races here... there are examples from every race, not just mexican or muslim.

America was founded by people seeking religious freedom...freedom to worship unfettered by a state sponsored religion. Politics and religion are inextricably linked in America...the separation of church and state was meant to allow freedom of worship, not prevent it. The only tyranny you face is the tyranny of intellectual oppression by those who fear religion.

BTW, I am not religious at all and do not attend church, but for the love of god please read up on topics.

Now, back to the Aussie stuff:)

Absolutely, 100% incorrect.

I suggest you read the writings of the founding fathers to better understand this.

No examples of a religious/secular government that hasn't resulted in tyrrany, eh? (Yes, I noticed how you tried to duck my earlier question).

How telling.

First Amendment and Article IV, the Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause for starters.

Some of the early colonies, although many of them were founded as a result of religious persecution, were not tolerant of dissident forms of worship. For example, Roger Williams found it necessary to found a new colony in Rhode Island to escape persecution in the theocratically dominated colony of Massachusetts.

It was not until the 18th century that Enlightenment concepts of freedom of individual worship gained ground both in Europe and America.

The modern legal concept of religious freedom as the union of freedom of belief and freedom of worship with the absence of any state-sponsored religion, originated in the United States of America.

This issue was addressed by Thomas Paine in his pamphlet, Common Sense (1776):

"As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensable duty of all government, to protect all conscientious professors thereof, and I know of no other business which government hath to do therewith…

The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom was written in 1779 by Thomas Jefferson. It proclaimed:

"[N]o man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."

And as to your question: our Republic.

I love Aussie Rules Football.

U can view Atheism as a form of religion.

Ive spent a lot of time in the USA, and largely in SoCal. SoCal has always strucjk me as very similar to much of AUS, must be the all gum trees there planted by miners. A few years ago I was at conference in Disneyland for my sins. It was 105degf, and I was really surprised to see parents allowing little kids in the pool uncovered. That does not happen in AUS. Kids wear hats, rash suits and zinc cream. 105f deg, as it was last weekend, will fry you red in 5 minutes. Australia has the highest instance of skin cancer in the world. The ozone hole in the southern hmeisphere is real and you are well advised to take the Australian sun very seriously.

Poor Canadiens. They got all our pantywaist Loyalists after the Revolution...

"I love being an Aussie and I love being free"....

We lot down here sometimes take for granted how good we've got it and how wonderful this country truly is.

It is a country now woven of many cultures; a caleidescope (sp?) in a many ways.

Over the decades there were influxes from other regions around the world. My maternal grandparents came in the late 20s and my father and his family came here in 1952. They all became "Naturalised Australians" and in fact Dad did not even keep his birth country citizenship. Once he was an Aussie, he was ONLY an Aussie. He and a lot of others didn't denounce their birth countries; but they did adopt their new country as their "first". They brought their traditions and customs certainly, but they embraced the Australian way with gusto...why else would they have come here if it wasn't for a better way of life?

What I cannot understand or accept these days is that most of the trouble we have down here is caused not by first generation immigrants, but by their children who were born here! They are Australian Citizens for Chrissakes!These kids take all that is good from "the Australian Way" and then create havoc by engaging in racist behaviour of sometime the worst kind.

I love that we can celebrate the traditions of so many varied cultures down here. I even love that we Aussies have the right to demonstrate; even if I don't agree...what I don't love is that so few are trying to hold the rest of us to ransom.

I agree wholeheartedly with Howard; even though he made that speech years ago it still applies now, right now. "You" don't like how things are down here; then damned well go back to where "you" came from. "You" have that right...to leave.

I will respect anyone's race, creed, religion and customs. In fact I welcome them. I teach our kids to respect and embrace "other ways". Respect "mine" in return though please and don't ram "your" beliefs down "my" throat as the "right and only" way.

Like I said "I love being an Aussie and I love being free". The few troublemakers we have here now need to remember their families came here seeking this very freedom and their actions are denying (and defying) that freedom for all of us.

Kings Cross is Sydney's club and red light district, so Im sure what you are getting at with this. The Labor new govt will get two terms, and it will take the Tories at least that long to recover from their train wreck at the last election. A sitting Prime Minster was chucked out of his seat. Reasonable people in Australia are optimistic about the future again.

Julia is quite popular, she is now the Deputy Prime Minister. A very capable lady.

I think you have it backward:

"...the only tyranny you face is the tyranny of religious oppression by those who fear intellectualism."

There, that's better. SmileWavy

If I was at all religious I would be offended, but since I am neither, I find your affirmation of my observation amusing.SmileWavy

Hardly an affirmation, dear boy. More a refusal and correction.

Anyway, back to topless Australian beaches...:D

Lisa. You dont have rights, not in the way that a US citizen has rights. You dont have freedoms. You have privledges granted to you by the Queen. Of England. And by extension, her Australian government. Remember that. Ask David Hicks what it means.

This was never going to change under John "I did but see her passing by" Howard.

You're right, Sparky, but only about the topless beaches...

I clicked expecting to see a thread about hot Australian chicks with sexy accents and got more politics talk. Ugh!

Give me a break Stuart - I'm not going to turn this thread into a republican or political debate.

We ALL have rights and freedoms down here and you know it.

These comments of yours belong in another thread....BTW how come "I" don't have rights according to you - you live here too, remember, so perhaps your statements should read "we"... or are you exempt for some reason. Give me a break mate....


and so do these. You want to debate Labor vs Liberal, Republicanism etc - maybe you should start another thread.

I admit, if affirm means acknowledge, then I did do that. The same as I would a topless beach. If I didn't affirm it, I'd fear tremendously for my male wiring. ;)