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Maybe we need to start a list to see which pass the litmus test.

I'll start. Career Stats only, no one season wonders.

At least a 70% completion rate in the Super Bowl.
At least 2 SB wins as a starting QB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic dB (Post 3748469)

There is such a fine line between winning and losing, usually...that you really need to look at it to have some perspective.

In Super Bowl 16 and later, Super Bowl 23...the 49ers won close games against the Bengals.

In SB 16, they came up with a goal line stand in which the TE from Cinci was tackled on the 1 foot line.... had they made that TD...they would have won the game.

In SB23, on the play before Montana hit Taylor for the winning TD...he threw one right in the breadbasket of Cinci D Back Lewis Billups...who dropped the potential game winning interception. Next play, Montana to Taylor game over.

Yesterday... Brady leads his team down the field late in the game for the TD to go ahead.... Eli comes back...but had any of the following 4 plays been made by the NE defense the game would have been over: the fourth down run by the Giants where they got the first down by a foot...the sack that Eli escaped followed by the incredible catch...and 3 terrible passes by Eli which the Pats D backs dropped potential interceptions on the drive, including Ellis Hobbs and Rodney Harrison....

had any of those plays went the other way, then TB would have his 4th ring...but they didnt.... had the Cinci Bengals made those 2 plays in their SBs vs. the 49ers....they would have been a dynasty...but they didnt.

So when people talk about who is the best, whos not etc...it may help to look at the big picture and realize that its a team game and sometimes luck is involved too. For that matter, there are several QBs bunched up at the top....
SmileWavy

You are totally correct. That is what I've been rying to get across to Mule and others. Montana's most impressive stats are TEAM stats. He had a cast around him that rated with the best.

Put Joe Montana in a Tampa Bay uniform for those same seasons and he might not even be a sidenote per NFL history or records.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattdavis11 (Post 3748527)

Team stats: Bart Starr wins hands down. Not even debatable.

Last year a vote of former players (mostly HOF members) named Starr as the best QB of all time. Of course...what would they know.;)

All I have to say is...,. Fran Tarkenton...

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI wide body (Post 3748536)

Last year a vote of former players (mostly HOF members) named Starr as the best QB of all time. Of course...what would they know.;)

They know that they played with him? :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lendaddy (Post 3748554)

They know that they played with him? :)

Yep you are correct. Many of them played against Starr and they have had the luxury of observing all of the later QB's including Montana and Brady.

Now exactly how many of the brainiacs here have those two qualifications?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI wide body (Post 3748594)

Every generation likes to romance their own. Human nature my friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by azasadny (Post 3748542)

All I have to say is...,. Fran Tarkenton...

I must have missed Fran's 2 Super Bowl wins.;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lendaddy (Post 3748598)

Every generation likes to romance their own. Human nature my friend.

Not if you judge it by how many of today's players seem to resent Brady.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI wide body (Post 3748600)

Not if you judge it by how many of today's players seem to resent Brady.

Wait 30 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lendaddy (Post 3748610)

Wait 30 years.

Will 30 years also alter the fact that Montana won 4 NFL titles while Starr won 5 NFL Championships?

I would guess that most of the voters pretty much factored in the waiting period per those two guys.;)

That the HOF voters knew they were biased towards someone they played with?

I'll just guess that the only one is you, WIWB. Why didn't you tell us long ago that you played in the NFL back in your prime? That would have quieted the crowd right off the bat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattdavis11 (Post 3748625)

What in the hell are you talking about? You must have missed some verbs or adjectives. Your post makes no sense at all and as is often the case you do not even have a fact or a point.

Do you often just revert to ignorant personal ***** when you are at a loss for semi-intelligent words per the subject?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI wide body (Post 3748536)

Last year a vote of former players (mostly HOF members) named Starr as the best QB of all time. Of course...what would they know.;)

They keep changing their minds - Montana one year - 50th anniv team of the 50 greatest they picked Unitas.

Oh and don't forget Old Otto G - with 7 Titles he makes Starr look like Sonny Jurgenson ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCF (Post 3748658)

They keep changing their minds - Montana one year - 50th anniv team of the 50 greatest they picked Unitas.

Oh and don't forget Old Otto G - with 7 Titles he makes Starr look like Sonny Jurgenson ;)

Actually I didn't realize that Graham had 7 NFL titles. I wonder if they will take away the NFL titles from the guys who now are given credit for winning the NFL during those years? ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lendaddy (Post 3748299)

Wasn't Bart Starr's career QB rating something like 80? Me thinks he had a lot of help:)

See, there you go with that logic again!

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI wide body (Post 3748536)

Last year a vote of former players (mostly HOF members) named Starr as the best QB of all time. Of course...what would they know.;)

I heard a few HOF players and coaches pick the Patriots* by 11-14 points for yesterdays game. So what do they know?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI wide body (Post 3748677)

Actually I didn't realize that Graham had 7 NFL titles. I wonder if they will take away the NFL titles from the guys who now are given credit for winning the NFL during those years? ;)

They should - When The Browns joined the NFL (along with the and 49ers) they proceeded to kick a**
Paul Brown said the top three teams in the old American League were tougher than the best NFL team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI wide body (Post 3748677)

Actually I didn't realize that Graham had 7 NFL titles. I wonder if they will take away the NFL titles from the guys who now are given credit for winning the NFL during those years? ;)

Those guys couldn't make the Dolphins squad. Like my friend from the mountains used to say, smart is superficial, but stupid runs deep!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCF (Post 3748710)

They should - When The Browns joined the NFL (along with the and 49ers) they proceeded to kick a**
Paul Brown said the top three teams in the old American League were tougher than the best NFL team.

The Browns were a good team but what does this have to do with "who is the best NFL QB who won at least 2 Super Bowls? That was the question posed and you have not submitted an entry.;)